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Topic: Sands Norrieston and Port of Menteith (Read 1428 times)
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hjm020
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 17
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Everyone,
I wondering if i'm somehow related into all this aswell!
I have an Alexander Sands (1838) who married a Margaret Harvie (1839). From the census information I've been able to get hold of they had six children:
Mary Ann (1859)
Catherine (1861)
John (1862)
Margaret (1864)
Jane (1869)
Alexander (1870)
Catherine Sands married John McQueen (1853) and had a daughter named Catherine Harvie Sands McQueen in 1892, born at Polder.
She married Alexander Paterson (1883) and they had two children, their daughter Catherine Sands Paterson being my grandmother. They lived at Port of Mentieth and farmed South Flanders Farm.
I've yet to fully trace the Paterson side of my family but I know that Alexander's father was named Daniel (1841) who was married to an Elizabeth Stewart, both of whom were also from Port of Menteith and were married at Drymen Parish.
If anyone has any further information or pictures of the farm it would be really appreciated.
Kind regards,
Heather
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valr
RootsChat Member
Posts: 192
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Hi
I have some Sands and some McQueens .. and Stewarts. but not the ones you mention unfortuantely!
Here is a photo you might like - a line of gravestones at Port of menteith all belonging to the Sands family. If you pm me I will send you a transcription of all Sands gravestones in Port of Menteith and Norrieston. I believe there are some at Kippen too but I don't have any pics or transcriptions of those.
Can you give me more info re your Stewart relative? I have several of those from Drymen.
Val
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Scotland -McCall, King, Morrison, Thomson, Mcfarlane, Stewart, Dow, Jolly, Roberston, Christie
England - Roberts, Steel, Underhill, Brookes, Pope, Stump
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valr
RootsChat Member
Posts: 192
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 oops try again
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Scotland -McCall, King, Morrison, Thomson, Mcfarlane, Stewart, Dow, Jolly, Roberston, Christie
England - Roberts, Steel, Underhill, Brookes, Pope, Stump
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hjm020
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 17
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks so much for the pictures,
On closer inspection I have three Stewarts in my family:
David Stewart who married Mary Cassels? this information is from the Marriage certificate of Elizabeth Stewart (1824) who married Daniel Paterson (1841) at Drymen Parish 30/12/1873. They had three children George (1875), David (1877) and Alexander Daniel (1883). Alexander married Catherine McQueen (1892) and had two children Daniel Stewart Patterson (1922) and Catherine Sands Patterson (1924)
Now on the other side...
John Sands was married to Ann Stewart and had Alexander Sands. Thier names were found from the marriage certificate of Alexander Sands (1838) and Margaret Harvie (1839) at Kippen Parish on 08/08/1958. They had six children:
Maryanne (1859)
Catherine (1861)
John (1862)
Margaret (1864)
Jane (1869)
Alexander (1870)
Catherine married John McQueen (1853) at Albion House, Thornhill, Kincardine on 08/06/1887 and their child Catherine Harvie Sands McQueen (1892) is the Catherine who married Alexander Paterson.
I've yet to find if their is a link with the Stewarts on either side as I know there were a lot of Stewarts in the area at that time. With regards to the McQueen link...
John McQueens parents I think were William and Jane (unknown maiden name) and aside from John they had four other children:
Samuel (1844)
Catherine (1847)
Margaret (1849)
Jane (1851)
Let me know if any of this adds up with your own research or if you can add to this.
Heather
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Chevalier
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 45
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Heather:
Your Sands line is related to mine (if memory serves). In order to confirm that I shall have to go digging in my attic and let you know what I find.
Terrance
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Clackmannanshire: Gibson, Kilgour, Stewart
Cumberland: Burch, Readhead
Devon: Dement
Dorset: Tennis/Dennis later Tennison
Dunbartonshire: M'Farlane
Glamorgan: Davies, Davis, Hughes, Jenkins, Lewis, Pugh, Williams
London: Gresham, Hensley
Perthshire: Buchanan, Campbell, Clark, Ferguson, Fisher, King, M'Ewan, M'Farlane, M'Gregor, M'Intyre, M'Laren, M'Nab, M'Queen, M'Vourigh, Sands, Simmie, Sinclair, Stewart, Walker
Stirlingshire: M'Farlane, M'Kendrick, M'Laughlan, M'Lay, M'Nicol, Miller
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hjm020
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 17
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I'll look forward to hearing what you can dig out ! 
Heather
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valr
RootsChat Member
Posts: 192
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Absolutely, Terrence! I was just waiting for you to come along 
No direct line to mine I am afraid....
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Scotland -McCall, King, Morrison, Thomson, Mcfarlane, Stewart, Dow, Jolly, Roberston, Christie
England - Roberts, Steel, Underhill, Brookes, Pope, Stump
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hjm020
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 17
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Slightly unrealted to the Sands information however I've just made a very interesting discovery...
Having hit deadends with the Sands I went off up the paterson line and decided to take a look at Elizabeth Stewart daughter of David (1791) and have been very pleasently surprised to find that there is a 90% chance that I am realted to King Robert II of Scotland, son of Walter Stewart and Marjorie Bruce, daughter of Robert the Bruce.
Very hopeful I do have some Royal Blood in me, if not I'll take a look at Ann Stewart, I'm determined!
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valr
RootsChat Member
Posts: 192
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In that case we would be distant cousins!
Suggest you check out the forums for the Stewarts of Balquhidder research group... masses of info and friendly folks (eg ME! haha )
google it - easy to find
val
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Scotland -McCall, King, Morrison, Thomson, Mcfarlane, Stewart, Dow, Jolly, Roberston, Christie
England - Roberts, Steel, Underhill, Brookes, Pope, Stump
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hjm020
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 17
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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This is where I got the information from, I've just spent the last 2hours reading the website and making notes. Having not done history at school after the age of 12 I didn't remember anything about Scottish Royalty past what I know from 'Braveheart'! But I'm definately a desendent from Elizabeth Stewart, daughter of Mary and David. This is the VI branch Stewarts of Coille Mhor at Gartachoil. She doesn't appear on the website as it only looks at the 1841 census but she is there in the 1851 census aged 9 and her parents details are given in her marriage certificate. I wonder if you have any information that dates back from David and Mary?
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valr
RootsChat Member
Posts: 192
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I did find some Gartachoil stuff recently at the National Archives of Scotland... will have a look. Part of the Dalveich branch of Ardvorlich from what I recall. Where are you living?
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Scotland -McCall, King, Morrison, Thomson, Mcfarlane, Stewart, Dow, Jolly, Roberston, Christie
England - Roberts, Steel, Underhill, Brookes, Pope, Stump
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hjm020
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 17
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I live in Stirling - the family havn't really moved much!
I've just discovered the marriage certificate of David and Mary Cassels. In 1823 in Drymen Parish. From what I gather David was living at Auchentroig at the time. I'm not sure if this is a place or not, or whether it is still near gartachoil.
Any information you have would be great.
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valr
RootsChat Member
Posts: 192
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FROM THE NAS
GD22 Papers of the Cunninghame Graham Family of Ardoch, Dunbartonshire 1400-1892
GD22/3 Papers of the Cunninghame Graham Family of Ardoch including Legal and Financial documents, Letters and Personal papers, Title deeds and Estate papers, Documents relating to the Earls of Airth and Menteith and other miscellaneous items.
Country code GB
Repository code 234
Repository National Archives of Scotland
Reference GD22/3/453
Title Instrument of sasine in favour of Andrew Stewart of Garquell [Garchell], son of Alexander Stewart of Garchall, of lands of Garchall, followin on precept of sasine by John, Earl of Lennox, Lord Dernle [Darnley]. Notary: Humphrey Cunynghame [Cunningham], M.A., priest, Glasgow diocese.
Dates 5/7/1525
Access status Open
AND
GD22 Papers of the Cunninghame Graham Family of Ardoch, Dunbartonshire 1400-1892
GD22/3 Papers of the Cunninghame Graham Family of Ardoch including Legal and Financial documents, Letters and Personal papers, Title deeds and Estate papers, Documents relating to the Earls of Airth and Menteith and other miscellaneous items.
Country code GB
Repository code 234
Repository National Archives of Scotland
Reference GD22/3/451
Title Confirmation by Matthew, Earl of Lennox, Lord Dernle [Darnley], after his new infeftment in said earldom by King James IV, in favour of Alexander Stewart of Garchell, his "cousin", of lands of Garchell, in earldom of Lennox. [Signature of granter].
Dates 21/3/1513
Access status Open
AND
Reference Title Date
GD22 Papers of the Cunninghame Graham Family of Ardoch, Dunbartonshire 1400-1892
GD22/3 Papers of the Cunninghame Graham Family of Ardoch including Legal and Financial documents, Letters and Personal papers, Title deeds and Estate papers, Documents relating to the Earls of Airth and Menteith and other miscellaneous items.
Country code GB
Repository code 234
Repository National Archives of Scotland
Reference GD22/3/454
Title Precept of clare constat by Lodovic, Duke of Lennox, Earl of Darnlie [Darnley], Lord Torboltoun [Tarbolton], Methwen [Methven] and Obignay [Aubigny], great chamberlain of Scotland, in favour of William Stewart, as heir to deceased Archibald Stewart of Garchill [Garchell], his brother, in lands of Garchill. [Signature of granter].
Dates 13/1/1590
and
GD86 Sir William Fraser Charters 1233-1896
Country code GB
Repository code 234
Repository National Archives of Scotland
Reference GD86/250
Title Letters of Reversion by Johnne Blayr of Fynwik-Malice and Barbara Conynghame, his spouse, granting that an annual-rent of 20 merks sold to them by Johnne Conynghame of Drumquhassill furth of the "vester thrid" of Drumquhassill (occupied by James Bullislond) extending to a forty shilling land of old extent, lying in the barony of Drumquhassill and sheriffdom of Striveling, should be redeemable by payment of the sum of 200 merks Scots in the parish kirk of Drymmen, upon forty days warning. At Drymmen - day of February 1579-80
Dates Feb 1579/1580
Access status Open
Description Witnesses, Andro Stewart of Garchell, William Conynghame of Fynwik, Nicoll Conynghame of Blayrquhois and Barnard Conynghame in Boquhynning.
The granters sign with their hands at the pen led by Walter Watsone, notary public.
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Scotland -McCall, King, Morrison, Thomson, Mcfarlane, Stewart, Dow, Jolly, Roberston, Christie
England - Roberts, Steel, Underhill, Brookes, Pope, Stump
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valr
RootsChat Member
Posts: 192
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You should find a discussion of these docs on the forum.
I am not far away from you! About 15 miles.
Val
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Scotland -McCall, King, Morrison, Thomson, Mcfarlane, Stewart, Dow, Jolly, Roberston, Christie
England - Roberts, Steel, Underhill, Brookes, Pope, Stump
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valr
RootsChat Member
Posts: 192
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Auchentroig is a mile from Buchlyvie in Drymen area - Stirlingshire.
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Scotland -McCall, King, Morrison, Thomson, Mcfarlane, Stewart, Dow, Jolly, Roberston, Christie
England - Roberts, Steel, Underhill, Brookes, Pope, Stump
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Sands_PoM.jpg