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Topic: Illegitimate child in Bradford Abbas - can anyone help? (Read 447 times)
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Strange Flowers
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 23
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello everyone,
After nearly 3 years of looking(on and off), i've managed to find the birth of my Gt grandfather GEORGE LAWRENCE.
He was born GEORGE LAWRENCE KING on the 21st of April 1844 in Bradford Abbas. On the birth Certificate, the father is not known and the mother is ANN KING.
I've had a look on the Dorsetopc website at the Bradford Abbas baptisms but can't find an entry for GEORGE. Is this normal or am i looking in the wrong place?
Could she have moved away from Bradford Abbas as soon as GEORGE was born and had him baptised somewhere else? Saying that, she married in 1847 in Bradford Abbas so must have stayed there.
I was hoping that the father could have been mentioned in the parish records. If not,are there any other records that could help me?
In 1847 in Bradford Abbas ANN KING marries a JOHN LAWRENCE - is it safe to presume JOHN was his father with LAWRENCE being the middle name of GEORGE?
Also when GEORGE married he put JOHN LAWRENCE as his father.
I know this is impossible to answer but what could be the reason that it took JOHN 3 years to marry ANN? Was this an unusual thing to happen? On the 1851 census, John's age is "52" so i would guess that JOHN would have had a life before he met ANN.
Not sure if any of this infomation helps but in the 1851 census JOHN, ANN & GEORGE are living in Merriot and then 10 years later ANN(widow) & GEORGE living in Crewkerne.
Sorry for all the questions but any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Cheers
SF
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coombs
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1261
Thomas Roberts & Mary Ann Walder 1864 Marriage
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Hi SF
I have a very similar story. My gggran was born illegitimate but her mum and dad married when she was 6 months old. He was still married way into the mothers pregnancy and his previous wife had been ill for a long time. Once the parents wed the babe was baptised as "Mary Ann Kate, Daughter of Thomas & Mary Ann Roberts". With all the evidence Thomas must have been the father. Him being married and his wife dying when the mother was heavily pregnant is a good reason why the birth was illegitimate.
I would think that John Lawrence was the father of George. Could he have been married when Ann had her baby? That can explain many illegitimacies. His wife may have died and he then wed her. Or it could have been financial reasons or they waited until the child was 2 or 3 to marry.
If the child was baptised after the parents wed like mine was, then you are very likely dealing with John as the father. Often 100% proof is difficult but in both our cases the likelihood looks strong as an ox. We have to go on the most likeliest of cases.
Ben
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Researching:
LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET/SOMERSET Coombs, pre 1780s.
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Palding
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham.
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe.
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster.
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk 1700s.
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift.
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain.
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Strange Flowers
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 23
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Ben,
Thanks for your post.
I did think that John was most likely married when Ann had George, but saying that on the Bradford Abbas opc website, it says that when John married Ann, he was a 'batchelor' - could this have been a lie then?
Thanks again Ben for your help.
Cheers
Craig
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coombs
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1261
Thomas Roberts & Mary Ann Walder 1864 Marriage
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Hi
I cannot seem to find John in the 1851 census. Is Merriot an actual place?
Ben
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Researching:
LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET/SOMERSET Coombs, pre 1780s.
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Palding
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham.
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe.
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster.
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk 1700s.
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift.
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain.
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coombs
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1261
Thomas Roberts & Mary Ann Walder 1864 Marriage
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Hi
Yes they are in Merriott Somerset in 1851.
George is listed as Johns son in the 1851 census. With the other evidence I think you have his father.
My ancestor Thomas Roberts baptised his daughter as his, said she was his on the 1871 and 1881 censuses, a poor law document listing all his children and her marriage cert. The fact that he was still married into the mothers pregnancy and his wife died just before the mothers birth explains the illegitimacy and what I have found is pretty conclusive.
I can say the same with your Lawrence's.
Ben
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Researching:
LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET/SOMERSET Coombs, pre 1780s.
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Palding
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham.
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe.
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster.
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk 1700s.
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift.
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain.
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Strange Flowers
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 23
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Ben
Thanks again for your help.
I too am pretty sure he's John's son and i think your explanation of your ancestor will most likely be near enough the same situation as George's illegitimacy.
Going back to the baptism, do you think they got George baptised when John and Ann married in 1847 because i've had a look and still can't find it. I wander if they got him baptised somewhere other than Bradford Abbas. Do you think this could be possible?
Cheers,
Craig
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coombs
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1261
Thomas Roberts & Mary Ann Walder 1864 Marriage
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Hi
They may have done if the baby was born out of wedlock to avoid sarcastic comments from locals in Bradford Abbas saying to the vicar "Look at those two having had that child before marriage" or "He should have married her before the birth" or if he had been married they may have said "Look at him, he fathered that baby while married". It is a good idea to try Merriott baptisms.
Ben
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Logged
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Researching:
LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET/SOMERSET Coombs, pre 1780s.
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Palding
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham.
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe.
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster.
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk 1700s.
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift.
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain.
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Strange Flowers
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 23
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Ben
Totally understand.
Will check Merriott baptisms.
Thanks again for your help, it's really appreciated.
Cheers,
Craig
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coombs
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1261
Thomas Roberts & Mary Ann Walder 1864 Marriage
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Hi
I hope that you do find something good. Normally a baptism is the most significant piece of evidence in proving a father of an illegitimate child if he is named or if he had wed the mother since the birth.
Ben
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Logged
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Researching:
LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET/SOMERSET Coombs, pre 1780s.
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Palding
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham.
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe.
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster.
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk 1700s.
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift.
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain.
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jendor
RootsChat Member
Posts: 105
Dorset OPC Coordinator
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SF
I would normally suggest you contact Caryl, the OPC for Bradford Abbas but our email system is up the shoot to put it politely! I have spent hours looking at code to sort it out and it's still not behaving *mutter mutter* I've put an email address on the homepage for people to mail to until it's sorted, if you send what you have here I will pass it onto Caryl.
Jen
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Brickwalls... Dean in Brecknock, Freeman in Bedfordshire
Working on my girls tree...
Richer (Essex & suffolk)
Legg, Hunt, Ellis, Wareham (Dorset, Blandford & abouts)
Cannell , Cowley, Christian (Liverpool & Isle of Man)
Sherwood, Jeff/e, Bland, Sharrard (New forest)
Also interested in Paradise/Paradice in Gloucestershire
Trying to figure out the Davis family of Winterborne Abbas and where they originated (before about 1780)
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Strange Flowers
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 23
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jen,
Thanks for getting in touch.
I've sent Caryl 2/3 emails but have had no reply. I just thought she was either busy or maybe there was something wrong with the email.
I'm trying to find the baptism of GEORGE LAWRENCE KING who was an illegitimate child and was born on the 21st of April 1844 in Bradford Abbas.
Also i was hoping that there could be something that could mention the illegitimacy.
In 1847 George's mother(Ann King) married John Lawrence in Bradford Abbas, so i think it's pretty safe to say he was George's father.
I've also had a look after they got married to see if George was baptised but again i could find nothing.
Thanks again Jen,
Cheers,
Craig
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