|
Pages: [1]
|
 |
|
Author
|
Topic: Tyler chimney sweeps in Greenwich/Blackheath/Deptford (Read 636 times)
|
TylerNZ
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 39
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi,
I have neverposted on one of these before so please excuse me if I get this wrong.
I am trying to locate information about the Tyler family from Greenwich, Blackheath, Lewisham, Deptford, Lee and surrounds.
The family stem from Thomas Tyler, a chimney sweep, who appears to have died around 1836, but I can find no record of this and would love to. He was married to Ann who appears in the 1841 census with her children and a James Ryan, lodger who she seems to have married in the 1850s. The children's births are registered at St Alphege in Greenwich on Family search, but unfortunately no marriage for Thomas and Ann is there. Thomas seems to have had a brother John, in Deptfor, also a sweep and maybe another brother Benjamin, in Maidstone (another sweep) both of whom married women named Ann oddly.
I am in New Zealand so cannot pop into the London archives to look up, but am hoping someone may be able to help me find info about Thomas, who I believe was born in the 1790s. I am also hoping the family may be linked to someone else's over there who could share some info.
Anyway here's hoping 
Fran
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
bearkat
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3891
Census Info. is Crown Copyright, from www.national
|
Hi Fran
Welcome to Rootschat 
The parishes you are looking at come under the NWKFHS. You may find something of interest on their website:
http://www.nwkfhs.org.uk/
Could this be the burial of another child??
Greenwich, St Alphage
22 Nov 1820 Benjamin TYLER age 3mth of Woolwich Road
(from Maureen Rawson's site http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mrawson/index.html#home )
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Middx - VAUS, ROBERTS, EVERSFIELD, INMAN, STAR, HOLBECK, WYATT, BICKFORD, SMITH, REDWOOD
South Stoneham, Hants - SMALL, HAMMERTON, GRIST, FRYER, TRODD
Beaulieu/Boldre, Hants - WOODFORD, CROUTEAR, BECK, BENDELL, KEEPING, HARDING
Kent - BAYLY, BORERr, MITCHELL, PLANE, VERNON, FARRANCE, CHAPMAN, MEDHURST, LOMAX, WYATT
Devon - TOPE, BICKFORD, FOSTER
YKS - QUIRK, McGUIRE, BENN
Nott/Derbs - SLACK
Hert - BARNES
L'pool- PLUMBE
|
|
|
TylerNZ
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 39
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi,
Thanks so much, it could well be a son ... I will check further. I guess I should really sign up to the NWKFHS.
Thanks again. It's incredibly difficult doing this research from so far away.
Fran
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
bearkat
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3891
Census Info. is Crown Copyright, from www.national
|
Memorial Inscriptions for Lewisham, Deptford, Woolwich but not Greenwich  are listed on the Kent Archaeological Society website
http://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/Research/Libr/MIs/MIslist.htm
A chimney sweep's family may not have been able to pay for a memorial stone though.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Middx - VAUS, ROBERTS, EVERSFIELD, INMAN, STAR, HOLBECK, WYATT, BICKFORD, SMITH, REDWOOD
South Stoneham, Hants - SMALL, HAMMERTON, GRIST, FRYER, TRODD
Beaulieu/Boldre, Hants - WOODFORD, CROUTEAR, BECK, BENDELL, KEEPING, HARDING
Kent - BAYLY, BORERr, MITCHELL, PLANE, VERNON, FARRANCE, CHAPMAN, MEDHURST, LOMAX, WYATT
Devon - TOPE, BICKFORD, FOSTER
YKS - QUIRK, McGUIRE, BENN
Nott/Derbs - SLACK
Hert - BARNES
L'pool- PLUMBE
|
|
|
TylerNZ
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 39
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
No it doesn't seem like they could afford much at all. 
I will take a closer look at the rest of the cemetery inscriptions, but nothing in Woolwich.
Thanks again for your help. Have so far been doing most of this research with the help of google and to be honest am pleased with progress so far. Have to say I am very envious of those who can take a stroll around the cemeteries and towns of their ancestors 
It would have been more helpful if the Tylers had been gentry, but sadly no ....
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
casalguidi
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 11919
|
Ann Harriett dau of Thomas & Ann TYLER of Blackheath Hill, chimney sweep baptised 30 Jul 1834 St Alfege Greenwich (born 16 Jul)
Given the address this could be a burial for Thomas but it is so difficult to say for certain:
Thomas TYLER age 34 of Blackheath Hill buried St Alfege Greenwich 29 Mar 1835
Do you have a birthplace/date for Ann (from later census perhaps?)
Casalguidi
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
TylerNZ
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 39
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hello,
Where on earth did you find the info about Thomas's death?
Thanks so much for the info. I have Ann's (who was married to Thomas) place of birth in later censuses or censi? as Lambeth in Surrey. I have found a later marriage certificate for her in 1852 for another marriage to another chimney sweep named James Ryant and she gives her father's name as Anthony White, occupation pensioner at Greenwich Hospital, but sadly I can find no trace of him whatsoever in the 1851 or 1841 census. I have tried all sorts of variations on the name but nothing turns up. I would be really grateful if you could give it a try for me :-)
Thanks again for your help
Fran
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
casalguidi
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 11919
|
Marriage at St Mary Lambeth 26 Feb 1821
Thomas TYLER bachelor of this parish
Ann WHITE (a minor) spinster of this parish
by banns with consent of the mother of the said minor
Wit: John DAVIS and Ja's Longman GAWLER - the latter witnessed many marriages
Regarding Anthony WHITE, early marriage certificates ie. 1852 don't always note the father as deceased even if he was. He might appear in the Royal Navy Pension records which are at The National Archives, Kew, London see their research leaflets
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/researchguidesindex.asp?WT.lp=gs-researchguides
Casalguidi
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
TylerNZ
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 39
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
OMG you are fantastic!!! Thanks thanks thanks! 
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: Monday 21 September 09 05:49 UTC (UK) by casalguidi »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
jammymanrocksmum
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 12
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi Fran,
I also have Tyler ancestors who were chimney sweeps in the same areas.
Could you possibly let me have details of your Thomas and his children so I can see if they fit in with my lot anywhere.
Many thanks,
Lynne
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
TylerNZ
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 39
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi Lynne,
From what I can tell all the Tyler sweeps in the area at the time were related :-)
My computer is in pieces at the moment so I haven't got everything to hand. Hopefully it will be fixed by tomorrow and everything is still there.
However:
Thomas Tyler and Ann White had the following children (that I can find)
Thomas James, b 27 Aug 1822
Mary Ann, b 9 Sept 1826
James Charles, b 26 Nov 1828
William Henry, b 11 Aug 1830
Henry Remus, b 29 Jul 1832
Ann Harriett, b 30 Jul 1834
John, b 1835
Thomas died in 1835 and Ann had another family with a James Ryant also a chimney sweep
There children seem to have used the name Tyler as well. These children were:
Eliza Ryant, 15 Jul 1840
Joseph Ryant Tyler, b 14 Jul 1841
Emma Ryant, 24 Jan 1845
David George Ryant, 12 Aug 1846
James Ryant, 22 Aug 1847
Only Emma and Joseph survived childhood.
John, b 1835 is my ggg grandfather and he moved to New Zealand in about 1870
I am also in contact with the GG Grand daugther of Henry Remus.
can you send me what you know, who you have found in your tree and we can see if it matches. I am still looking for the children of the above. They seem to have mostly moved away from Greenwich in the 1850s or so and I haven't managed to track them down yet :-)
I look forward to hearing from you soon
Fran
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
jammymanrocksmum
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 12
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi Fran. Sorry - very busy week!
My ggg grandmother was Elizabeth Tyler. She married James Penn (also a chimney sweep) in the Maidstone area in 1834 and later moved to Chatham.
She was born in Greenwich in 1817. Her parents were Benjamin Tyler (a sweep) and Ann Jones. Benjamin and Ann lived at Woolwich Road, Greenwich, and their first 9 children were christened at St. Alphage, Greenwich. They had 12 possibly 13 children (I'm not sure about the last one).
1. Mary Ann, b. 9/5/1812, ch. 24/1/1813.
2. Benjamin, b. about 1815, ch. 23/6/1815.
3. Elizabeth, b. 13/2/1817, ch. 15/10/1821.
4. James Benjamin, b. 9/1/1818, ch. 19/9/1820.
5. Benjamin, b. 28/8/1820, ch. 19/9/1820.
6. Samuel, b. 30/8/1821, ch. 15/10/1821.
7. Esther, b. about 1823, ch. 2/2/1823.
8. Joseph, b. about 1824, ch. 4/7/1824.
9. William, b. about 1826, ch. 3/3/1826.
10. Benjamin John, b. 31/12/1827, ch. 11/4/1830.
11. Rosanna, b. about 1828, ch. 6/4/1828.
12. Jane, b. about 1832, ch. 22/4/1832.
13. John, b. between 1836 and 1839.
Child number 5, Benjamin, is the one mentioned in a previous post.
The first 9 were christened at St. Alphage, Greenwich. The family moved to Maidstone in about 1827. Benjamin John was christened at Union Street Wesleyan, Maidstone, and Rosanna and Jane were christened at All Saints, Maidstone.
I'm not absolutely sure these all belong to this family due to the odd order of the christening dates (parents were given as Benjamin Tyler and Ann for all of them). However, the 1841 census shows Benjamin and Ann, with William, Benjamin, Rosanna, Jane and John. This last child, John, I suspect might be a grandchild. I have yet to delve deeper!
I've noticed that the name Thomas doesn't appear in this family, or in the family of Benjamin's (possible) parents - I think they were Joseph Tyler and Elizabeth Painel (you know how first names tend to get repeated down the line). However, I'm sure the families are connected - we may just have to go back further to find the link. Have you managed to get any further back?
All the best,
Lynne
ps. I love your country!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
TylerNZ
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 39
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hello again,
We have been delving into the past as far back as we can get, and come to a halt with Thomas and his brother John and we think, brother Benjamin (your Elizabeth's father). It would not be a long shot for three Tyler chimney sweeps in Greenwich to be brothers. The ages are certainly within the time frame. They were born about five years apart from Benjamin in about 1791 to John in 1796 and Thomas in 1801.
I have not done much on Benjamin's family other than record the names of the his children as I come across them.
Can you please send me what info you have on Joseph and Elizabeth? We had come up with a Joseph who we thought might be the father, but I had not had any luck tracking down anymore info than he was a chimney sweep and lived in Bridgwater Gardens in 1817.
Just a thought, the John born somwhere between 1836 and 39 could possibly be John son of Thomas born in 1836, depending of course on where you found him? (My john was b in Blackheath)
Where abouts in the world are you? NZ is ok, a little cold and quiet, and very difficult to do family history research from.
Look forward to hearing from you soon.
Fran
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
jammymanrocksmum
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 12
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi Fran,
My Benjamin married in 1810. The only suitable birth I could find on the IGI was in 1788 in Holborn, with parents probably Joseph Tyler and Elizabeth Painel. I've just posted a message to see if anyone can give me further details on this baptism, as I'm not very sure it is the right person.
Also, I've now discovered that the IGI for Greenwich has very little prior to 1800 which could be why we can't find Benjamin or Thomas in that area. As you say, from their birthdates they could be brothers, or maybe cousins. Have you tried a lookup in the Greenwich registers for Thomas circa 1800?
I'll let you know if I get any further....
Lynne
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1]
|
|
|
|
|
