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Topic: McRitchie of North Queensferry (Read 459 times)
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Ferryman
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 22
Great-grandpa John 1836-1900
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Hello everyone: First posting, so apologies if I breach protocol. This is a question for tommacgregor who posted some interesting stuff on the Chalmers family last year, and who it seems lives in Melbourne.
The McRitchie family were smallholders, ferrymen, boat owners, sailors and innkeepers in North Queensferry for over 200 yrs. Alexander McRitchie married Helen Walwood in 1687 but by 1901 only Alexander b. May 1842 was left. (Most of the family moved to Edinburgh about 1870 and did quite well in the rag trade.)
Alexander was a boatman and the son of James McRitchie and Helen Chalmers. We have an 1823 will in which a John McRitchie bequeaths his share in the sloop Friends of North Queensferry, master Thomas Chalmers.
However, Helen was James's second wife. His first was Janet Turnbull who died at the age of 36 after they had three daughters Christina, Margaret and Janet.
In January 1848 Christina and Margaret left for Australia. By that time their father had eight more children by Helen Chalmers.
The State Library of Victoria has a letter written by Christina to her father giving a fascinating picture of the voyage.
"Dear Father, We are happy to inform you of our safe arrival in Melbourn(e) on May 16th. We had a good passage, a good Captain, a doctor and officers with temperate sailors. We intended keeping a journal but our part of the ship being so dark many day we could not see. Their was nothing of speaking about ... There was some children died but none of the old people died. It would have been a great deal worse if there had been but the children were never much minded."
And we thought 22 hours on the Jumbo to New Zealand was hard going.
The girls left N Queensferry on Jan 8 1848 and embarked on the barque William Stewart at Plymouth on January 25. There were 234 emigrants on the voyage which took 111 days.
Their youngest sister Janet appears on the NQ census up to 1881.
As far as I can see she did not marry but worked as a servant.
Now Mr. Tom ... please can you suggest any way that I might trace Christina and Margaret McRitchie after they landed in Australia and took up servants' posts with a Mr and Mrs Brown?
Thank you everyone for this excellent website, I have spent hours on it!
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Ferryman
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 22
Great-grandpa John 1836-1900
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Re-posted this on Australia site and within 24 hours Jenn and Sue found not only the two girls but also their children and grandchildren. Both lived to a ripe old age and I have even seen Margaret's grave in Geelong East cemetery courtesy Google Earth and the Cemetery Trust's excellent online map system.
Many thanks to everyone, not least this brilliant website.
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CDCD
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 2
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Re Christina McRitchie.
The South Australian Register, Wednesday, June 11, 1858.
Marriages.
On the 19th instant, by licence, at the residence of W H Goddard, Hindley Street, by the Rev. John Gardner, Mr William G Stephens, Geelong to Christina, eldest daughter of James McRitchie (McRicie), Esq, shipowner, Queensferry, Fifeshire, Scotland.
For many years, William George Stephens, has been my main line of research.
He arrived in Adelaide on 3 September 1849 on the ship Louisa Baillie. His name does not appear on the passenger list. Although, he left a diary in which he mentions shipmates, so therefore I presumed his must have been a member of the crew.
This is the interesting part, which took years to sort out. His real name was Stephen William GOETZE. He reversed his name and became William George Stephens. I can only presume he used George as it looked most like Goetze when written.
Under Stephens he married Christina. I know the children that she had, but I did not know when she died, despite looking for her death in South Australia and Victoria.
In his diary, written many years later, Stephen William Goetze after returning to Adelaide from Geelong, in Victoria, said. '"Which I did, but it proved an unhappy contract and entailed:-
"Sin and Sorrow for years, and here I must draw the Veil - for shortly afterward came the Cloud"
"The little rift within the Lute"
That bye and by make the Music mute"
It must be noted that William George Stephens married Christina McRitchie, not Stephen William Goetze.
Stephen, sometime after his arrival in Australia changed his name. He took his first name Stephen for his last name adding and 'S' becoming Stephens. The he took his second of middle name of William to be his first or Christian name and although I have no proof, it would appear that the name George looked most like Goetze when written, and hence became William George Stephens. A complication which caused many years of detailed research.
In a Stautory Declaration 14 July, 1913, his second wife, Hannah Sylvia Ada Phillips of Manly, do solemly declare and affirm that by my husband the late Stephen William Goetze, I have had three sons...My late husband was born in London and on his arrival in Australia and for some eyars afterwards, discontinued the surname of GOETZE for private and business reasons and the birth......
But returning to the marriage with Christina. After the marriage tOn the corner of the Stat Dec was pinned a scrap of paper that stated Stephen William Goetze died on 23 December, 1899.
After their marriage, the couple returned to Geelong.
Four children were born to William and Christina in Melbourne.
Carolyn Christina born 1857, Samuel William b 1860, Emily Jeanette born South Yarra 1861, Mary Jemina born Collingwood in 1864.
By 1873, William Stephens had met Hannah Ada Sylvia Phillips. Phillips was her maiden name, my father said his grandmother, who he remembered, was known as Sylvia.
Sylvia already had a son. Reginald Leo Spruhan Phillips who was born at Sandridge (Melbourne) in 1869. It would appear Reginald was illegitimate. When giving information for his birth certificate, Sylvia established a pattern. She placed the surname of the father as part of the Christian name of the child.
Sylvia had a child to William George Stephens in April 1875 in Victoria. The son of this child born in 1875, Francis George has a son living in Sydney today.
By 1876, William and Sylvia had moved to Balmain a suburb of Sydney. In 1876 W G Stpehens was a draper of Matchett St, Balmain. (Sands Post Office Directory)
in February 1878, my grandfather, Norman Clement Stephens was born to William and Sylvia in Mullens Street, Balmain. They did not register the birth until 12 April 1878.
His father incorrectly states that he had married Hannah Ada Sylvia Phillips in Melbourne on 27 December 1873. He states he was a widower.
In the Post Office Directories, W G Stephens, of Reynolds Street, Balmain is listed as a draper. As he is in 1886, but by 1887, he has reverted to his real name. Stephen William Goetze, same address.
His son Samuel William Goetze also lived in Balmain. He also was a draper. Samuel died at Balmain in 1889. He states his father as Stephen William Goetze; mother as Christina McRitchie. He was not married and died of Epilepsy.
Stephen William Goetze died on 24 December 1899 age 76. His occupation noted as' draper'. Cause of death was 'senile decay' The certificate contained the information that his fahter was Noah Goetze and his mother Sarah (unknown). The informant, Frank Goetze said that his father was born in Londin, had lived three years in South Australia, 21 years in Victoria and 25 years in NSW.
The death certificate states that there were two daughters living and one male deceased from the first marriage to Christina.
This is long and complicate and the subject of a thesis I did back in the 1980s.
I have all references/sources. I did not know what happened to Christina, but on 9 December 1878,
This might appear jumbled. But I have proved without a shadow of doubt the somewhat dubious history of Stephen William Goetze (aka as William George Stephens).
This thesis is in book form. I am trying to remember if I had a computer when I wrote it, and will need to look for a 31/2 floppy as somehow, I have a notion I did do it on an early computer.
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Ferryman
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 22
Great-grandpa John 1836-1900
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What a wonderful story. No wonder we could not trace Wm George Stephens though we suspected he was not the ideal husband. For the story of the girls in Australia you might look at
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,364106.0.html
The summary of our findings so far:
From the Port Phillip Herald, Tuesday 15 May 1848:
Arrived May 15 - William Stewart, ship from Gravesend 14th and Plymouth 25th January. Passengers - Mr Charles Horrell, Mr W. H. Goddard, and 234 bounty immigrants, comprising 54 single females, 47 single males, and married couples with their families.
Mr. W. H. Goddard was a merchant from Surrey and paid his own passage. Perhaps his eye was caught by a pretty Scots lassie on her daily outing on deck, perhaps they met on the 600-mile voyage from Melbourne to Adelaide, for as yet Australia had no railways.
On November 10, Margaret McRitchie aged 22 and William Henry Goddard aged 26 were married in Holy Trinity Church, Adelaide (Book2/page302).
For Christina, life was to be very different. On June 10, 1856, she married William George Stephenson ‘at the Residence of Mr. W H Goddard in Adelaide’. (Book26 page 240).
Their daughter Caroline Christina was born in Swanston Street, Melbourne, in 1857. The birth certificate lists William as the informant, and he gives Christina’s age as 28 years when in fact she was 33.
Caroline would grow up to marry Richard Wild in the Sydney suburb of Manly in 1882 and the couple would have 14 children.
Swanston Street today runs through the heart of Melbourne, but at the turn of the 1860s it was all one would expect from a dockside area of a fast-growing town. My researcher friend Sue tells that one of her ancestors was born “in a tent, Swanston St”.
On April 3, 1902, Christina Stephens formerly McRitchie, aged 76 yrs, died alone in the Immigrants Hostel, Melbourne, the last refuge of the destitute. The cause of death was given as dysentery and exhaustion. She was buried in unmarked pauper’s grave K470 in Melbourne General Cemetery.
Some questions: The register date line 2, we think it is 1856 not 1858
Please could you give context of the diary entry your paragraph 6: was the 'unhappy contract' reference to his marriage to Christina?
Para.12: 'But returning to the marriage with Christina. After the marriage tOn the corner of the Stat Dec' ..... Are some lines missing here?
Third para before end: 'I did not know what happened to Christina, but on 9 December 1878,' .... lines missing here?
Many thanks for sharing what must have been a vast amount of research with us, you have given us the last piece of the jigsaw.
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CDCD
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 2
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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This is Cynthia again. I have read through the chat, and can definitely prove that William George Stephens was Stephen William Goetze. I have searched for Christina for many years and was saddened by the news of her death. William George STephens left a diary, although written many years later.
He said he married my great grandmother, Hannah Ada Sylvia (my dad remembered her and said she was Sylvia) 19 December 1878, although they had two sons before that. Francis George born 26 april 1875 and Norman Clement my grandfather in February 1878. He states somewhere they married in Victoria, but not so, I have their marriage certificate and they married in Sydney.
He was in Geelong when he returned to Adelaide to marry Christina and 1856 is the correct date. I have the marriage certificate and the newspaper of the day with the marriage notice in it.
His birth is recorded in London 18 December 1825, to Noah and Sarah Goetze. He died in Balmain, a suburb of Sydney on 23 December 1899.
He arrived in South Australia on the ship 'Louisa Baillie' into Adelaide in September 1849. His name is not on the passenger list. In his diary he refers to his 'shipmates' so presume he was crew member. He mentions incidents on the voyage, that are mentioned by an Ethel Lillicrap whose father hired half of the ship with timber for a 10 room house etc.
He does return to Geelong to get married, and I quote from the diary. It was an unhappy contract and entailted Sin and Sorrow for years, and here I must draw the Veil - for shortly afterward came the Cloud" "The little rift within the Lute" "Which bye and bye made the Music Mute".
When I found him in Sydney in the Sands Post Office Directories in tje 1880s, I found two S W Goetze and was blown over when I discovered that one of the S W Goetze was Samuel William Goetze, son of Christina. He was an epileptic and died in 1889. He did not marry and had no issue, but there he was living in the same suburb with his father and his new wife and their two sons.
My grandfather, Norman Clement Goetze worked for R J Wild, to whom Caroline Christina was married. I should look for the marriage of R J Wild and Caroline and see if she married as Stephens or Goetze. Okay, they married in Manly NSW (where I was born) in 1882 and she married under the name of Stephens.
I cannot believe that Christina was still alive. I did look for a divorce yesterday when in the library. Only looked in Victoria, but might expand that to NSW. I would very much like any certificates that you have. My eamil is (*).
I think she had a bad life. My father is dead now, but we were interested in the Goetze family history together. SWG died 11 years before dad was born.
SWG's father was the pillar of respectability. Steward of the Methodist Church, lay preacher, total abstainer, full page on the Manly Daily when he died.
I do not have a photograph of SWG. I do have one of his brother, James Henry, two years older.
I looked up the Victorian deaths, (although I was busy inthe library and probably was not thorough enough) but did not see the entry in 1902. Does she die as Stephens or Goetze? I looked under Stephens.
Our contact is through a mutal relative on my Goetze side. Helen. It was she who first made contact.
I think what I must do in the future is travel to the UK and meet all the wonderful people in my internet life.
Although, Christina was not my great grandmother, I have looked for her for so long, that I feel close to her. I once nearly ordered a death certificate in South Australia which on the old microfiche just said 'C M Stephens'. I would have been wrong.
And I will renew my efforts to find Margaret Katt who is a direct descendant, and now other names come to mind which were connected with that first marriage.
For that matter R J Wild was a very prominent figure and is sure to feature in Whos Whos etc. And the Manly Daily, and Manly Library Local History Collection. There could be mention of his wife, Caroline's family.
I remember my Aunt saying once, that she heard her father, ie Norman Clement Goetze say when they were rounding up the population of Australia with German sounding name, 'that maybe we should go back to our other name. And she asked what? and was told 'Stephens'. No doubt my grandfather would have known this, as that is what is stated on his birth certificate.
Oh! what a tangled web. Yes, please, send me anything. Just today I have been looking for 'the diary' which I thought I had typed at one stage. It is quite long, and I have looked through dozens, maybe hundreds of old 3.5 floppy disks.
Glad I can be of help. I have not read all the chat. Have printed it off and will go into the fire and catch up on what everyone has been saying. Maybe Margaret Katt is there? Maybe you knew all of this.
Warm regards
Cynthia
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He contnued his trade of drapery and while some years ago, following his movements and address (easier now because of ancestry.com) I found two S W Goetze (he went back to his original name in
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« Last Edit: Thursday 21 May 09 17:05 UTC (UK) by aghadowey »
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tropicalj
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9050
Mason and Callum
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Hello there Cynthia and Welcome to Rootschat,
May I say how happy I was when Ferryman contacted me to say look this thread, and I read the connection and realized what had happened to William George Stephens.
From what I read, it seems proable that WG Stephens was in contact with her daughters from his first marriage.
I found it very hard to see that they seem to have all abdoned Christina and were living no doubt reasonable well off lives in Sydney while she died poor and destitute in Sydney. However in saying that I experienced the very same thing with my ggf Alfred Shoebridge who I found dying in Bendigo in an institute and buried in a paupers grave along with 16 others!!! and he had three living children all in Sydney, did they not know what happened to him? As I wonder here did the family just become separated and contact was lost forever or did the blame their mother for their parents "divorce"?
Isn't Rootschat just wonderfull, I guess the power of an internet search turns up so much information that would have taken years to find
kind thoughts Jenn
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When you search for ancestors, you find great friends! I live in Townsville, Australia researching TOWNSEND,PINNEGAR, STRANGE, PULLEN, GRIFFIN from Wiltshire,, SHOEBRIDGE, VINALL, BRINDLE, Kent BAYLEY, Dorset,Yorkshire, HAIR, Durham, CUMMINS, BROWNLESS from Yorkshire, EDSALL, Cornwall, MORGAN, HENNESSY, BAKER, Ireland. In Australia Hennessy, Hair, Bayley, Townsend, Shoebridge, Edsall, Adamson, All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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