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Topic: Brickwall - please help! (Read 1063 times)
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ClairK1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 60
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Hi,
I'm being driven slowly mad by an anomoly in my tree. Here is the info:
Frederick Parker married Ann Funnel in 1863. She died in 1866 and he remarried Lucy Colabeen in the same year. Certificates confirm the Lucy marriage.
But from then on I never have them living together - Frederick is always with his family and listed as 'unmarried'. Lucy never has a man living with her but always has more children by the name of Parker in each census! Although the two are connected by marriage, I can't seem to confirm it without doubt.... I also can't seem to confirm Frederick's death. In 1898 Lucy remarried an Allen Chapman.
Where am I going wrong? Please can someone suggest where I might go next?
Thanks in advance.
C
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Parker in Richmond, Kingston, Barnes, Surrey and Brighton, West Firle, Ringmer, Eastbourne, Sussex.
Harris in Boughton, Sheldwich, Kent,
Ryder in Bovingdon, Hertfordshire.
Wearon in Rotherhithe, Deptford, Greenwich, London.
Messer in Richmond, Surrey.
Warr in Brighton, Sussex.
Colabeen, Colobeen in Lewes, Ringmer and Brighton.
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lizdb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9414
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I'm not sure there is really anywhere to go if you have the certs and all the censuses.
I suppose birth certs of the Parker children might be interesting to see if Frederick is named as father on all, and if his occupation links with the chap you have found on the censuses calling himself single.
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Roy G
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 697
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Your message suggested there were a number of censuses where the couple were apart and Frederick was listed as a single man, but it could only have been 1871, because Frederick died aged 44 in the June quarter of 1875 Parker Frederick ref Brighton 2b 162. I have deduced that is the correct entry for his death because all other Sussex deaths of a Frederick Parker between 1870 - 1880 are for much younger men. I therefore suggest Frederick's listing as a single man was just a single error by the 1871 census enumerator.
After the death of Frederick, Lucy and her children were returned to the West Firle workhouse for she and Frederick were from the Ringmer area and the cost of her support had to be born by them. That must have been why she and her children were there in 1881.
It is possible that that the 1891 census shows Lucy had a further child/children by someone else, but I have no access to that info.
RoY G
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Roy G
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 697
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Just In case I had made an error, I went back to the series of messages you posted earlier on the My Brighton Messages website.
I can now see why you are a little confused for it has 'Married' against Lucy's name. Is this another enumerator's error, or was she either a deserted wife, or a wife with a husband at sea or in the services? I suppose it would help if you can tell us where you think you have also found her husband alone on the 1881 or 1891 censuses.
By the way, I believe that West firle Workhouse must also have had a nursery, for on the 1881 census there was not only Lucy & her family
Lucy PARKER Pauper M 40 Ringmer Sussex, General Servant (Domestic)
Caroline PARKER Pauper 13 Ringmer, Sussex, England
Hubert H. PARKER Pauper 11 Brighton, Sussex, England
Arthur E. PARKER Pauper 9 Brighton, Sussex, England
Further down the same list amongst the children that did not have to work was
Amy E. PARKER Pauper Female 5 West Firle, Sussex, England
All these dates still support the record that suggests it was her husband who died in Brighton in 1875.
Roy G
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5122
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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1891 census (in service to a Lambert family at 21 Park Crescent, Brighton):
Lucy PARKER Serv Wid 50 Cook domestic serv Buckinghamshire Slough
Caroline do Serv S 23 Cook domestic serv Sussex Lewes
Amy do Serv S 14 Cook domestic serv Sussex Firle
RG12/809/7/8
Anna 
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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ClairK1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 60
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Hi,
Thanks for your reply - here is the info I have about Frederick - maybe it's wrong, I'm not sure now, but it's all my info! What I can work out is that from the marriage cert Frederick's father's name is Henry Parker. When cross referenced, Henry Parker married Sarah - see familysearch.org for Frederick's birth details as well... Their children were Edwin, Jane, James, Fillis, Margaret, Charles, Frederick (b. 1837), Dinah, Spencer and Charlotte - a couple of these children died young. So I have traced them like this:
1841: [/u]
Living in Hastings, St. Clements. On 1841 census. With rest of family.
1851:[u]
Living with entire family (Henry, Sarah and brothers and sisters) in Hastings, Sussex. Aged 14.
1861:[/b]Piece: RG9/562 Place: All Saints -Sussex Enumeration District: 7
Civil Parish: St Clement Ecclesiastical Parish: St Clement
Folio: 160 Page: 1 Schedule: 6
Address: Priory Road
~~~~~~~~
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
PARKER Henry Head W M 62 Labourer Sussex - Hastings
PARKER Edwin Son U M 37 Labourer Sussex - Hastings
PARKER Frederick Son U M 24 Painter Sussex - Hastings
PARKER Dinah Daur U F 21 Dressmaker Sussex - Hastings
PARKER Spencer Son U M 19 Labourer Sussex - Hastings
[b]1871:[/u]
Living in Hastings, Sussex with Henry (Sarah dead) and a couple of brothers and sisters - Edwin and Dinah.
1881:[u]
Dwelling 1 Orient Terrace
Census Place Hastings St Clement, Sussex, England
Family History Library Film 1341242
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 1023 / 86
Page Number 19
Adelaide PARKER Head W Female 47 T B Wells, Kent, England Housekeeper
James H. PARKER Son U Male 25 Hastings, Sussex, England Master Butcher
Charles P. PARKER Son U Male 20 Hastings, Sussex, England Butcher
Frederick PARKER Brother In Law U Male 44 Hastings, Sussex, England House Decorator
1891:[/u]
A Lodger in Brighton, with the Whyman family - listed as house decorator still, so assume it's the same one.
1901:[u]
Still at same place, same occupation.
Death date: 1910 -
PARKER Frederick 73 Hastings 2b 7
This is why it's such a brickwall for me - it doesn't make sense! Perhaps I've had the wrong Frederick all along, but with the marriage cert listing his father as Henry, I can't find any other family that would correlate.
In regards to Lucy - I know she got remarried, but if this is the same Frederick, how did that happen? Hmm, I think this is going to be the one thing on my tree that I'll never know!! Very frustrating.
Regards,
Clair
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Parker in Richmond, Kingston, Barnes, Surrey and Brighton, West Firle, Ringmer, Eastbourne, Sussex.
Harris in Boughton, Sheldwich, Kent,
Ryder in Bovingdon, Hertfordshire.
Wearon in Rotherhithe, Deptford, Greenwich, London.
Messer in Richmond, Surrey.
Warr in Brighton, Sussex.
Colabeen, Colobeen in Lewes, Ringmer and Brighton.
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omega 1
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 278
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Clair
Here is the Marriage for Henry & Sarah
Henry Thomas Parker & Sarah West.
13th March 1823,Hastings All Saints.
Childrens baptisums
09-07-1823,Edwin
19-01-1845,Henry
15-04-1829,James
23-02-1821,Phillis
25-07-1832,Margaret
18-04-1834,Charles
08-03-1837,Frederick
04-12-1839,Dinah
21-4-1843,Spencer
08-08-1845,Charlotte
Dad was a Labourer.
Not sure about Jane
28-12-1827,Jane.Gives Mum& Dad Henry & Jane.
Maybe the Vicar got in a muddle.
Hope this info will help you.
Omega
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James,Pembrokeshire,Carmathenshire & Glamorganshire.
David/Davies,Pembrokshire.
Gibby,Pembrokeshire
Griffith,Griffiths,Pembrokeshire& Carmarthenshire
Wilkin,Carmarthenshire
Edward,Pembrokshire
Phillipps,Pembrokeshire
Brown,Pembrokeshire
Evan/s ,Pembrokeshire
Llewellyn,Pembrokeshire
Bowen,Carmarthenshire
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ClairK1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 60
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Hi,
Yes, James (1829 - 1877) did marry Adelaide Startup - in 1881 Frederick is living with them. Adelaide is then living with Jane Durnford (nee Parker - Fred's sister) in 1901. Everyone is so closely linked! In fact, in this is wrong and it's the wrong Frederick for me, I've done a lot of work for somebody! So I think the way forward is to get the death cert for one of the Fredericks to see which one is which. Lots and lots of thank you's for all your helping hands (especially for letting me know the baptism dates and Sarah's maiden name - another hole filled in) and I hope you all have luck in your quests.
Clair
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Parker in Richmond, Kingston, Barnes, Surrey and Brighton, West Firle, Ringmer, Eastbourne, Sussex.
Harris in Boughton, Sheldwich, Kent,
Ryder in Bovingdon, Hertfordshire.
Wearon in Rotherhithe, Deptford, Greenwich, London.
Messer in Richmond, Surrey.
Warr in Brighton, Sussex.
Colabeen, Colobeen in Lewes, Ringmer and Brighton.
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omega 1
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 278
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Clair
Your welcome,we all need help from time to time.
When you have the Death Cert,let us know.
I have info on Henrys baptism ,so can take you back further.
Omega.
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James,Pembrokeshire,Carmathenshire & Glamorganshire.
David/Davies,Pembrokshire.
Gibby,Pembrokeshire
Griffith,Griffiths,Pembrokeshire& Carmarthenshire
Wilkin,Carmarthenshire
Edward,Pembrokshire
Phillipps,Pembrokeshire
Brown,Pembrokeshire
Evan/s ,Pembrokeshire
Llewellyn,Pembrokeshire
Bowen,Carmarthenshire
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Roy G
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 697
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Hi again
I see others have also suggested you have the wrong Frederick.
I think the answer may lie in the 1871 Brighton census for two of their children Hubert and Arthur E were both born in Brighton between 1869-1872. So theoretically the couple should have been living there at that time. Finding Lucy and her children in Brighton in 1871 hopefully with another Frederick should prove that you have unfortunately been following a false trail.
Dont forget, not all Sussex Parishes are on the IGI, and there could easily have been another Frederick (father Henry) baptised in one of those unindexed parishes.
Roy G
Post Script A Clair K is alo researching this family on the Genes Website. Presumably that is you too.
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ClairK1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 60
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1871:
4 Timber St, South. Sussex.
Head of household: Lucy Parker - labourers wife. 29 years old.
Son: Charles, 5.
Daughter: Caroline, 3.
Son: Hubert H., 7 months.
Lucy is listed as married, yet is head of the household. At this time the Frederick I have is a house decorator - maybe this is my new line of enquiry - as the occupation is different.
C
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Parker in Richmond, Kingston, Barnes, Surrey and Brighton, West Firle, Ringmer, Eastbourne, Sussex.
Harris in Boughton, Sheldwich, Kent,
Ryder in Bovingdon, Hertfordshire.
Wearon in Rotherhithe, Deptford, Greenwich, London.
Messer in Richmond, Surrey.
Warr in Brighton, Sussex.
Colabeen, Colobeen in Lewes, Ringmer and Brighton.
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5122
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I'm not sure it adds much, but here are some baptisms for the children:
Caroline PARKER b 28 Jul 1867 baptised 13 Oct 1867 Lewes
Hubert Henry PARKER b 6 Aug 1870 baptised 23 Oct 1870 Lewes
Arthur Ernest PARKER baptised 20 Jul 1873 Brighton
all children of Frederick PARKER and Lucy.
Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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Roy G
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 697
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Thanks for the 1871 census showing Lucy and her family on their own.
I take it that the Timber Street South address was in the Lewes area.
Seems that everytime her husband went missing, Lucy returned to somewhere near where she was born.
As two more Parker children were born after 1871, have you tried looking to see if a married Frederick Paker was in either the Hospitals or Prisons in that year?
I also note that the IGI have another Frederick Parker, father Henry, baptised in East Grinstead in 1827.
But the most favourable alternative appears on the 1851 census of Beddingham near Lewes. (Folio 617)
Frederick, Ag Lab, aged 19 (born c1832) Father Henry Ag Lab aged 44 widower.
There are numerous other siblings also born Beddingham with him living in a place called Brooks's.
Ann aged 10
Edward aged 14 Ag ab
George ged 18 Ag Lab
Henry aged 16 Ag Lab
Lucy aged 4
Thomas aged 8
The location and occupations suggest this could be a better contender to be Lucy's husband than the person you have in Hastings. So, perhaps you should investigate this family in The Beddingham Parish Records and censuses.
It would be particularly useful to locate Frederick Parker, (aged about 39 and born Beddingham) on the 1871 census. Where was he and what was his marital status.
Unfortunately, Beddingham is not on the IGI but if you check the Genes website you can also drop a line to:
Gill & Hannah who have Lucy Parker of Beddingham in their tree
Colin who has Edward Parker of Beddingham in his tree
And Christopher & Chris who have a James Parker of Beddingham in their tree
In addition
The 1881 census also has a widowed Caroline Collabeen, born Barcombe c1814, that could have been Lucy's mother, and most probably her sister Elizabeth Sarah Colabeen (Dtr of Charles & Caroline) who was baptised in Lewes 1844 and married in Hove in 1867.
(Colabeen appears in the records spelt both with one and two Ls)
Roy G
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« Last Edit: Friday 06 March 09 07:03 UTC (UK) by Roy G »
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