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Topic: Robert & Esther Wilberforce (Read 407 times)
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Wilbs
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 73
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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On the 1861 census I have found Robert (b 1812) and Esther (b 1811) Wilberforce, licensed victualer living at what looks like the Bexerley Arms, 54 Spencer Street, Kingston upon Hull.
However, I can't find this couple before or after this census. There is a possibly of course that they had died by 1871 when they would have been 59 and 60 respectively, but I can't find a death record(s) for them either.
Can anyone help?
Thank you
Wilbs
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mariac
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 832
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Wilbs
1841 Kirk Ella kingston on Hull
Robert Wilberforce b 1812 Yorkshire
Esther do b 1811 do
Thomas do b 1840 do
1851 Kirk Ella
HO107; Piece: 2360; Folio: 445; Page: 16
Robert Wilberforce 1812 ShoeMaker & Dairyfarmer 21 acres
Esther Wilberforce b 1808 York
Thomas Wilberforce 1840 do
Elijah Cooke 49 lodger coachman
1871 Hunslet Leeds
RG10; Piece: 4514; Folio: 90; Page: 31
Thomas Wilberforce head 1840 Kirk Ella yorkshire
Ann Wilberforce wife 1840 Armley, Yorkshire
Esther Wilberforce dau 1863 Leeds
Emily Wilberforce dau 1865 New Wortley
Robert H Wilberforce son 1868 Hunslet
Kate Wilberforce dau 1870 do
Esther Wilberforce Mother 1808 York
Esther Wilberforce died Sept Q 1873 Hunslet Vol 9b p 184
Wilberforce Robert age 55 died June Q 1867 Kirkstall
Vol9b p162
Regards
Mariac
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Wilbs
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 73
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Brilliant Mariac. I can't thank you enough. Did you find them on Ancestry.co.uk? If so, I need to look better.
It's interesting that Robert changed his occupation from farmer/shoemaker to publican - a real midlife change in direction.
Can I ask you for one more favour? I'm also looking for a Herbert Wilberforce, also a licensed victualer. I have very little detail of Herbert and wondered if Robert/Herbert were the same person (the enumerator misunderstanding the Yorkshire accent or poor handwriting).
My other hope was that Herbert was Robert's son and the pub passed down the family, but again, this is not what happened.
The only details that I have was that Herbert had at least two children, daughters Ida (1844-1911) and Grace (1854-1928). I have the sisters living in Toxteth Park, Liverpool in 1891 with Grace's 2 year old daughter Mary Ida Burns but again can't find them before 1891.
Ida gives her place of birth as India and Grace as Hammersmith, London, but in later censuses both ladies claim to be born in Liverpool. Herbert is named as Ida's (deceased) father on her death certificate and as Grace's (deceased) father on her 1897 marriage certificate in 1897 to John Burns (daughter's father)
Any help that you could give would be gratefully appreciated.
Wilbs
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Bee
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2019
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On the 1861 census I have found Robert (b 1812) and Esther (b 1811) Wilberforce, licensed victualer living at what looks like the Bexerley Arms, 54 Spencer Street, Kingston upon Hull.
Not sure if this is of any help or interest, but the 1861 Post Office Directory for Hull & Suburbs has the following entry in the public house section
Beverley Arms, W Cartwright, 54 Spencer Street.
Bee
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Dinsdale, Ellis, Gee, Goldsmith,Green,Hawks,Holmes, Lacey, Longhorn, Pickersgill, Quantrill,Tuthill, Tuttle & Walker, in E & W Yorks, Lincs, Norfolk & Suffolk. Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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mariac
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 832
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Wilbs
Sorry have not had any luck finding Herbert. I can find the census you are talking about but no sign of Herbert.
Regards
Mariac
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Wilbs
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 73
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you Bee
The census shows the Wilberforces as the license holder and no one else staying at the premises. The Beverley Arms claims to have been a coach house for the last couple of centuries so I would have expected there to have been some guests staying there that night and it would have made sense for the Wilberforces to be there if they were having a holiday away from the farm.
The only other conclusion that I can reach is that the Beverley Arms had recently changed hands and the Post Office directory hadn't been updated. (Some things never change; even almost 150 years later) I tried to find W Cartwright in the census, but without a christian name or further details it was difficult to identify him to see if he had moved.
As it is, it looks like Robert Wilberforce is not the family member I'd hoped him to be. We may still be related, but not a direct line. However, it's another name to place in the "just in case" file.
Regards
Wilbs
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Wilbs
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 73
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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That you Mariac for looking for me.
Herbet Wilberforce (my great, great grandfather) is a real sticking point. I had hoped to jump a generation, find his parents and work forwards. My biggest problem is that every official document or census seems to conflict. We keep wondering if he's fictitious and the daughters are illegitimate.
Alternately, with a 10 year age gap between the girls, I'm either looking for two marriages or a husband who spent a long time away from home (Seaman? Prisoner? Military?)
Anyway, thank you once again for your help.
Regards
Wilbs
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Tom Piper
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 279
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Wilbs,
I saw your entry on Yorks for Herbert, which I can't find anything about, but I did find this:
The Hull Packet and East Riding Times (Hull, England), Friday, May 17, 1867; Issue 4295.
Deaths
May 5th, at Leeds, aged 55, Robt. Wilberforce, late of Beverley Arms, Hull.
Tom
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Wilbs
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 73
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you Tom, for looking for me. Robert & Esther don't appear to be mine, and the hope that it was an enumerator error (Robert/Herbert) was unfounded.
This branch of the family is certainly challenging.
Regards
Wilbs
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