Welcome, Guest. Please login or register for free.
Did you miss your activation email?
Friday 27 November 09 14:54 UTC (UK)
Welcome Home Help Surnames Library Shop Search Login Register

+  RootsChat.Com
|-+  England (Counties as in 1851-1901)
| |-+  England - General
| | |-+  Warwickshire (Moderator: RootsChat)
| | | |-+  Baptisms - Mancetter
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 6 Print
Author Topic: Baptisms - Mancetter  (Read 1883 times)
stanmapstone
RootsChat Marquessate
********
Posts: 6588


My answers only refer to England and Wales


WWW
Re: Baptisms - Mancetter
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 05 March 09 21:49 UTC (UK) »




I read only recent somewhere, maybe family history online or similar LDS library 'the P mean just that _Pauper'

Dobby


P can mean Pauper  in the burial register, but apart from the period 1783-1794 it would not have any relevance to baptisms. The Church of England has never charged fees for Baptisms, (unlike weddings and funerals) except in a few exceptional places . Under Ecclesiastical law no fee can be charged for the administration of Sacraments, though the canon suggests that a fee may be payable where there is an ancient custom to that effect. The Baptismal Fees Abolition Act was passed in 1872, under which no fee can be charged for baptism notwithstanding any ancient custom to the contrary.  The purpose of this act was to make the law clear in respect of fees for baptisms or for registering baptisms, it appeared that fees were being charged in some parishes, and it was intended to put an end to this system.

Stan
Logged

Mapstone, Mapston. Sunderland, Somerset
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
BumbleB
RootsChat Senior
****
Posts: 456


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: Baptisms - Mancetter
« Reply #16 on: Friday 06 March 09 07:40 UTC (UK) »

I've decided - I'm going back to Lichfield Archives today, and I'll have a more thorough look at the records and see if I can pinpoint when it all started.  There are times when I wish I'd kept my mouth shut, as it's always getting me into trouble!!!  So I'll be back here later this afternoon.

BumbleB
Logged

Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY
dobfarm
RootsChat Aristocrat
******
Posts: 1396


Granny Tidmarsh (Maiden name Mary Fletcher b1874 )


Re: Baptisms - Mancetter
« Reply #17 on: Friday 06 March 09 09:24 UTC (UK) »

Hellow Willow,

You would enjoy and is worth a visit, its all- more of Compos lot on TV and too an outsider they are all- Batty -in their gens. With our mod world -Fly here- zoom there- our countryside missed by many. The coal and iron industries brought a lot of these ancestors north to the Derbyshire, Notts & Yorkshire mining areas. And around Birmingham is a nightmare with Saffs -Worc-War- Glos and Oxford boundries being close and altered.

Stan you seem to know this area on ancestry and genealogy! so I'll keep in the background as not my area. There are different religious ways of the register book entry methods from Yorkshire and Warwickshire also others counties above from Yorkshire registers and not knowing that area. Therefore all your views and info input is very welcome to help Sue in her quest and like me learning every day.

Thanks to all
Logged

Derbyshire, Warwick. Yorkshire, Stafford and Worcestershire.
In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth.
dobfarm
RootsChat Aristocrat
******
Posts: 1396


Granny Tidmarsh (Maiden name Mary Fletcher b1874 )


Re: Baptisms - Mancetter
« Reply #18 on: Friday 06 March 09 10:05 UTC (UK) »

Sue,

You do your own pace, for a learning aspect yes! but for my look ups!~though very appreciated...~ there is as said before no rush. One gets blinded and addicted to this hobby and losses reality of 2009.
Well I did ~~~~~but not now. Steady as they blow.
However ~~Thanks again
Dob.
Logged

Derbyshire, Warwick. Yorkshire, Stafford and Worcestershire.
In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth.
BumbleB
RootsChat Senior
****
Posts: 456


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: Baptisms - Mancetter
« Reply #19 on: Friday 06 March 09 14:43 UTC (UK) »

Well, it was an interesting exercise.  I may have exaggerated slightly, but there are a lot of them.

The two months I first looked at showed July 1806, 31 baptisms of which 20 were received into the church, and December 1809 14 baptisms of which 7 were received.

I did a random look at various months and years:

April 1810 11 and 5;  September 1809 11 and 7;  February 1807 9 and 5; May 1807 11 and 6; Deceember 1805 9 and 4; June 1805 10 and 6; May 1804 13 and 5; November 1803 19 and 12, July 1803 26 and 7; July 1801 9 and 5; January 1801 5 and 3; March 1800 13 and 2; November 1799 8 and 1 plus 1 private baptism; January 1799 9 and 1, July 1798 14 and 2; October 1797 5 and 0; April 1797 9 and 3; July 1796 7 and 4; May 1796 7 and 2; January 1796 6 and 3; May 1795 13 and 2; September 1794 21 and 4; January 1794 9 and 4; June 1793 13 and 4; January 1793 9 and 1.

Maybe it's because most records don't show which of the baptisms were "received in the church", but it seems to be a fairly high proportion in this particular parish although possibly no more than any other, it was highlighted because it was stated in the records.

Anyway it was an interesting exercise if nothing else.

BumbleB
Logged

Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY
dobfarm
RootsChat Aristocrat
******
Posts: 1396


Granny Tidmarsh (Maiden name Mary Fletcher b1874 )


Re: Baptisms - Mancetter
« Reply #20 on: Friday 06 March 09 15:38 UTC (UK) »

Hi Bumble

Great exercise!

Here in Yorkshire about the same years. They give not only Bap, birth but also the time of birth and where, plus grandparents. ie Marsden Buckly hill independent congrestional. You'ed have a field day.

Best regards Dob
Logged

Derbyshire, Warwick. Yorkshire, Stafford and Worcestershire.
In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth.
BumbleB
RootsChat Senior
****
Posts: 456


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: Baptisms - Mancetter
« Reply #21 on: Friday 06 March 09 16:33 UTC (UK) »

I know about the wonderful Dade registers.  How else could I have put together my Tadcaster and Healaugh Archbell families!!

BumbleB
Logged

Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY
dobfarm
RootsChat Aristocrat
******
Posts: 1396


Granny Tidmarsh (Maiden name Mary Fletcher b1874 )


Re: Baptisms - Mancetter
« Reply #22 on: Friday 06 March 09 17:01 UTC (UK) »

mine too -Beaumonts
Logged

Derbyshire, Warwick. Yorkshire, Stafford and Worcestershire.
In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth.
dobfarm
RootsChat Aristocrat
******
Posts: 1396


Granny Tidmarsh (Maiden name Mary Fletcher b1874 )


Re: Baptisms - Mancetter
« Reply #23 on: Friday 06 March 09 18:01 UTC (UK) »

1783 A Stamp Act .............deleted  by me ....copywrite

« Last Edit: Saturday 07 March 09 01:16 UTC (UK) by dobfarm » Logged

Derbyshire, Warwick. Yorkshire, Stafford and Worcestershire.
In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth.
stanmapstone
RootsChat Marquessate
********
Posts: 6588


My answers only refer to England and Wales


WWW
Re: Baptisms - Mancetter
« Reply #24 on: Friday 06 March 09 19:18 UTC (UK) »

I have already pointed this out earlier Smiley
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,365825.msg2414518.html#msg2414518

Stan
Logged

Mapstone, Mapston. Sunderland, Somerset
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
dobfarm
RootsChat Aristocrat
******
Posts: 1396


Granny Tidmarsh (Maiden name Mary Fletcher b1874 )


Re: Baptisms - Mancetter
« Reply #25 on: Friday 06 March 09 19:29 UTC (UK) »

Yes I agree saw It earlier! but this was what i had read. Roll Eyes
Logged

Derbyshire, Warwick. Yorkshire, Stafford and Worcestershire.
In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth.
dobfarm
RootsChat Aristocrat
******
Posts: 1396


Granny Tidmarsh (Maiden name Mary Fletcher b1874 )


Re: Baptisms - Mancetter
« Reply #26 on: Friday 06 March 09 20:07 UTC (UK) »

Hi Stan

The original query related to 1809 say +/- 10 years and this letter P which is well past 1794, so the question in view of total info gathered so far I would think is as Follows
a- Does the P mean as 1783-94 years or as what has been said Private home Bapt being week child prior to the later church bapt welcoming the child into god house.
B-As its been said the church may have been closed for a time and all or some were bapt at home in the said parish of residence to the church reopened.
C -P- meaning Prior. ~~ this is part of a reply I got from Nuneaton Family history Society
Quote~
"Charlotte dau of Thomas & Phoebe Tidmarsh
Received into the Church Dec 1809
P Bap July 9 1809.

The P Bap means previously baptised so they had been baptised into a non conformist church, possibly Methodist and re baptised into the Church of England as required by law.
This may explain why the marriage of Thomas & Phoebe is hard to find.
Phoebe ( according to 1851 census was born in Balsall & probably married there.)"

~unquote

I think
Sometimes Anno Domini was used. Abbreviations: Ano Dom. Anno Dni. A. D. but more often Anno P (and a variety of letters that followed.) This term appears to mean 'in the current year.


Regards
Dob
Logged

Derbyshire, Warwick. Yorkshire, Stafford and Worcestershire.
In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth.
stanmapstone
RootsChat Marquessate
********
Posts: 6588


My answers only refer to England and Wales


WWW
Re: Baptisms - Mancetter
« Reply #27 on: Friday 06 March 09 22:08 UTC (UK) »

dau of Thomas & Phoebe Tidmarsh
Received into the Church Dec 1809
P Bap July 9 1809.

The P Bap means previously baptised so they had been baptised into a non conformist church, possibly Methodist and re baptised into the Church of England as required by law.

Dob


Hi Dob
If they had been baptised it would not say "received into the church" it would just be a baptism, and if the non-conformist baptism was not lawful why would it say "previously baptised" Huh
As you point out the time was well past 1794  Smiley
Stan
Logged

Mapstone, Mapston. Sunderland, Somerset
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
********
Posts: 3157


Mum - Such love


Re: Baptisms - Mancetter
« Reply #28 on: Friday 06 March 09 22:12 UTC (UK) »

Hi everyone,
Sorry - I've been catching up with phone calls to elderly friends and relatives. I knew if I logged on to rootschat, I would get distracted and never get round to ringing them!

Dobby,
I live in the country - it is a different world.

BumbleB,
Sounds like you had a busy time at the records office - you're right, there are a lot aren't there. And very meticulously recorded, too Smiley
This one is interesting:
November 1799 8 and 1 plus 1 private baptism - because the private baptism is separate.

If they'd all been privately baptised you would expect there to be a previous baptismal entry, wouldn't you.

Looking at the quote about being baptised in another church (non-conformist) then I would have thought there would be something on the BMD registers - had a quick look for both Charlotte's baptism, and Thomas + Phoeby' marriage, but can't see anything.

My husband's ancestors were non-conformist (unitarians) and were all baptised at the Nottingham High Pavement Chapel, but I don't think any of them were baptised again at the C of E church in the town - although some of them are buried in the churchyard.
I have come across (helping another rootschatter) a family whose children were baptised at both a methodist and C of E church - whether they decided to change churches, I don't know - it's the only one I've personally come across - but my experience isn't vast.

The only other explanation I can think of ( and this is purely a guess) is that the received could be:

Confirmation.

The family moved into the area from another church, and the vicar used this term as meaning 'welcomed into the congregation'.

But, personally I'm not sure either is a very plausible explanation.

It doesn't look as if the church was 'out of action', as you say.

Stan, I see the points you're making.

Curious!

Paulene Smiley
Logged
stanmapstone
RootsChat Marquessate
********
Posts: 6588


My answers only refer to England and Wales


WWW
Re: Baptisms - Mancetter
« Reply #29 on: Friday 06 March 09 22:23 UTC (UK) »

re baptised into the Church of England as required by law.


There was no law Grin
According to a letter in "The Times" a conference of Church of England Bishops took place at Easter 1715, at Lambeth Palace, on the subject of the validity of Dissenters' baptism, and they all agreed that it was valid. They issued a declaration part of which states "....that such persons as have been already baptized with water, and in the names of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, ought not to be baptized again"

Stan
Logged

Mapstone, Mapston. Sunderland, Somerset
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 6 Print 
« previous next »


[Copyright] [Shrink Link] [About Us] [Terms of Use]
All Census Lookups are Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only
RootsChat.com cannot be held responsible directly or indirectly for the messages or content posted by others. Inline images in messages are the copyright of the respective linked sites.
RootsChat.com, Europa House, Bury, Lancashire, BL9 5BT

In loving memory of Eric George Davies, 1934-2009, the father of RootsChat.com































Powered by SMF 1.0.7 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
0.052:18