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Topic: a difficult Maori history (Read 738 times)
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king william
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 518
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have been on this site before asking questions about the Maori history for my children. I have a tad more knowledge and wonder if it will help in tracing who their ancestors were.
Their great grandmother was Hari Hari Rauwharangi born in Tauranga about 1892, she had a sister Lucy, and possibly a sister Myra.
Their parents were (Te Ronai?) Rauwharangi and Whakaata Te Wheoro who were married about 1890.
I know that Lucy married a Peta Wairua and I would guess that this family would know the history of Lucy.
I have 3 queries.
1...Is it possible to obtain a birth certificate from 1892 of a Maori birth which will give their parents.
2...Does anyone know someone with any knowledge of the Wairua family.
3...How can I find someone from the Keeti/Gage family who would know of the history of this family.
Harihari married Hori Keeti (aka George Gage) in 1936, he was her second husband and was a celebrated tohunga. They had two sons so they would also have knowledge of their mother's family history.
Where do I find these people, I only want to make a phone call and get some names places and dates to add to my children's very small Maori history.
Robin
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Wiltshire, Somerset, Gloucestershire - Busshe/Bushe/Bush, Le Strange/Strange, Whittington, Gunning, Browning, Maltravers, Rodborough,
Shropshire - le Strange
Wales - Daylwyn or Deulwyn, Rede, Wirriott,
East Sussex - Catt, Ashdown, Barham, Henley, Lawrence, Hepden, Elliott, Phillips
London - Bush, King, Millis, Jarvis, Mellis(s)
Suffolk - Sewell, Knight, Baxter, Martin
Norfolk - Sewell, Larter, Howlett, Bacon
Tasmania, Australia - Bossward, Wellman
Worcestershire - Beach, Shepherd
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althea
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2093
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It wasn't until 1913 that maori births had to be registered
http://bdmhistoricalrecords.identityservices.govt.nz/AboutTheRecords/
Did you find out the hapu/marae in your new info?
Contacting them wuld best lead you to some answers.
eg. I was finding out for my son which Nga Puhi hapu he belongs to and I have contacted the main office and they have a kaumatua looking into the genealogy for us
If you haven't done so already look at the research info
http://www.rcyachts.net/maori/maps.htm and contact appropriate iwi.
have you made contact with researcher at world connect
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=tonycairns&id=I075834
Bye
Althea
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Pascoe, Williams, Rowe, Matthews, Eddy: St Just-in-Penwith, St Keverne, Cornwall. Varcoe, Collicoat, Chapman: Roche area,Cornwall Cornes & Graham: Ireland/Shropshire, Barker, Palin: Shropshire McDougall, Morren: Ireland, Earl, Redgen, Steward: Suffolk Info: Thames, New Zealand Genealogy Resources: http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~althea/index.htmlNZSG Mem#18951 CFHS Mem#13723 Info: Breage, Germoe & Godolphin Cornwall : http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~althea/index.html |
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king william
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 518
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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A.lthea,
Many thanks for your reply, I do have the great grandparents for my children, it is just that I think that there must be so much more that some families know.
I have emailed the sites below so will await a reply,
Many thanks
Robin
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Wiltshire, Somerset, Gloucestershire - Busshe/Bushe/Bush, Le Strange/Strange, Whittington, Gunning, Browning, Maltravers, Rodborough,
Shropshire - le Strange
Wales - Daylwyn or Deulwyn, Rede, Wirriott,
East Sussex - Catt, Ashdown, Barham, Henley, Lawrence, Hepden, Elliott, Phillips
London - Bush, King, Millis, Jarvis, Mellis(s)
Suffolk - Sewell, Knight, Baxter, Martin
Norfolk - Sewell, Larter, Howlett, Bacon
Tasmania, Australia - Bossward, Wellman
Worcestershire - Beach, Shepherd
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pixie6
RootsChat Member
Posts: 144
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Tena koe, there is the gage whanau in Paeroa, there may be numbers in the telecom pages as I am not there now, good luck.
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king william
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 518
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Pixie,
Many thanks for the reply. I have found another Gage family member in Hamilton who is also seeking the same information I am. It does worry me slightly that he has also not made any headway with what should be a very simple exercise as the information is available.
He has given me the name of a very prominent member of the Gage family who could help and who actually can get me the information I want. I phoned him and do hope the information follows through.
I am surprised by how difficult this has been to find. The information is only as far back as the 1880's and he assured me that there is much further known history back from Hari Hari.
A lovely Maori lady told me once that the Maoris are very hesitant to give their history as it belongs to them and they do not like to give it away willy-nilly. I am not asking for something that does not belong to me as it is the history of my children and grandchildren and it me who is collating it for them. I have made that very clear all the way through this frustrating exercise.
If I do not hear back from him, really all I can do is to make an appointment and then travel to the place where whoever has the history can then show it to me.
At times I could scream!
My own English history has been so much easier, if I have a query I have emailed and someone has obliged just like that.
I hope to report that I did not have to scream and that it has all fallen into place.
Robin
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Wiltshire, Somerset, Gloucestershire - Busshe/Bushe/Bush, Le Strange/Strange, Whittington, Gunning, Browning, Maltravers, Rodborough,
Shropshire - le Strange
Wales - Daylwyn or Deulwyn, Rede, Wirriott,
East Sussex - Catt, Ashdown, Barham, Henley, Lawrence, Hepden, Elliott, Phillips
London - Bush, King, Millis, Jarvis, Mellis(s)
Suffolk - Sewell, Knight, Baxter, Martin
Norfolk - Sewell, Larter, Howlett, Bacon
Tasmania, Australia - Bossward, Wellman
Worcestershire - Beach, Shepherd
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althea
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2093
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Hi
I appreciate your frustration, but like any family, as we have all found some want to share and others dont, its not just a cultural thing
MAori genealogy is often easier
Maori LAnd Courts etc..good old fashioned letters to the Marae/hapu
Did you try the http://whakapapa.maori.org.nz/ that is the first port of call
Bye
althea
++there are GAGE researchers at g.r. including ones from Paeroa++
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/home/
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Pascoe, Williams, Rowe, Matthews, Eddy: St Just-in-Penwith, St Keverne, Cornwall. Varcoe, Collicoat, Chapman: Roche area,Cornwall Cornes & Graham: Ireland/Shropshire, Barker, Palin: Shropshire McDougall, Morren: Ireland, Earl, Redgen, Steward: Suffolk Info: Thames, New Zealand Genealogy Resources: http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~althea/index.htmlNZSG Mem#18951 CFHS Mem#13723 Info: Breage, Germoe & Godolphin Cornwall : http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~althea/index.html |
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king william
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 518
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Althea,
Nice to hear from you - I am still hoping to hear from the man I phoned and I will email him again shortly. He is an outstanding man as I found when I googled him, his name was slightly familiar to me.
I have done all my own history and have tracked down every line as far as it will go. This Maori history is from my children's father's line.
All I want is the information of just a few generations back from what I have now, as it would be nice for my children and grandchildren to know their complete line. I have three grandchildren in Australia and in a generation or two this line will be completely forgotten unless I get it now. They will never even know that they have a Maori heritage unless I do it from here.
I know that somewhere the information is just a phone call away and that is the frustrating part.
Many thanks for the links - I will look at them, and as I said before I am not asking for anything that is not mine, it is my children's history and belongs to them and I want them to have it.
I will postpone the screaming for now!
Robin
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Wiltshire, Somerset, Gloucestershire - Busshe/Bushe/Bush, Le Strange/Strange, Whittington, Gunning, Browning, Maltravers, Rodborough,
Shropshire - le Strange
Wales - Daylwyn or Deulwyn, Rede, Wirriott,
East Sussex - Catt, Ashdown, Barham, Henley, Lawrence, Hepden, Elliott, Phillips
London - Bush, King, Millis, Jarvis, Mellis(s)
Suffolk - Sewell, Knight, Baxter, Martin
Norfolk - Sewell, Larter, Howlett, Bacon
Tasmania, Australia - Bossward, Wellman
Worcestershire - Beach, Shepherd
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king william
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 518
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Dawnbird,
Many thanks for your reply. My problem has been that there is no one I know who actually knows the history as far back as it is possible to get it. The few people from that line only know back as far as Hari Hari and it was me who sent for all the certificates available which gives her parents names.
I knew that Hari Hari had at least two daughters from her first marriage, one of them was my children's line, and that she had two sons from the marriage with George Gage, the very well-respected tohunga.
I thought my best shot was to find someone from the line of one of the two sons who would know the line of his ancestor Hari Hari.
I have finally found a man who is contacting someone else who has the history and I believe he will give me what I want. He is very obliging and is a very respected man and I feel very lucky that he is willing to help me.
As for my children, they are not the slightest bit interested in any of their history but one day they will be and I am collating it while I can.
I have read up about the cultural differences and am showing respect towards it.
I really feel it is something that belongs to my children that they are entitled to and particularly to do it for my 3 Australian grandchildren who will not ever find their Maori roots because of their location.
The fact that English history is so much easier to find, they may just think why would anyone bother with the performance it takes to get the Maori history. In that case in a couple of generations their Maori ancestry wil be forgotten.
That is why I am desperate to do it while the people are still alive to give the information
You make some very good points and I thank you for that.
Robin
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Wiltshire, Somerset, Gloucestershire - Busshe/Bushe/Bush, Le Strange/Strange, Whittington, Gunning, Browning, Maltravers, Rodborough,
Shropshire - le Strange
Wales - Daylwyn or Deulwyn, Rede, Wirriott,
East Sussex - Catt, Ashdown, Barham, Henley, Lawrence, Hepden, Elliott, Phillips
London - Bush, King, Millis, Jarvis, Mellis(s)
Suffolk - Sewell, Knight, Baxter, Martin
Norfolk - Sewell, Larter, Howlett, Bacon
Tasmania, Australia - Bossward, Wellman
Worcestershire - Beach, Shepherd
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wahine
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Auntie Lucy was married to Te Ura O te Ra (Toby) PETA who died in the second world war and after the war she married his younger brother Rangaiti Peta.
The father of her husbands was Grandpa Wairua PETA.
The person named Peta WAIRUA is my father and is also the younger brother of Uncle Toby and the older brother of Uncle Rangaiti.
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wahine
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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To answer the questions re Hori Keti, try the office of Te Runanga o te whanau a apanui.
If you would like a picture of Hori Keti, contact me
If you want to know more about the Peta Whanau or the Wairua whanau contact me.
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wahine
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Oops sorry I forgot to add my name it is Wahine
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binkles73
RootsChat Pioneer
Posts: 1
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Kia Ora,
My great grandmother was Ruihi (Lucy) Peta who married a Te Ura O Te Ra from the East Coast...a family member who maybe able to help you is Dawson Peta. You can fin him in Cape Runaway or on Facebook...I hope this helps. I to am curious bout the Rauwharangi connection...as I only know my Peta side.
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wahine
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Let me once again say that Lucy was never married to my father Peta Wairua. She was married to my Uncle Toby( Teuraotera) who died in the 2nd world war and then to his younger brother Rangaiti Peta. Please phone the Office of Te Runanga O Te Whanau A Apanui who are located in Te Kaha and will be able to put you in touch with the late Hori Gages whanau. I also have a photo of the old man Hori Gage which I would love to share with you. My contact number is NZ 094808416. Arohanui Ruth Norman nee Wairua.
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king william
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 518
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Wahine and Binkles
I have only just now seen these replies and I too would like to know more about the Rauwharangi line.
I would also love to have a photo of George Gage and if anyone has any connection to the Gage sons - I would love a photo of Harihari - she died in 1955 in Omaio so there is probably a photo of her somewhere.
I have been in touch with Riki Gage who really tried to help but no-one seemed to know the history of Harihari.
However I was put on to a book in the Tauranga library by John Steedman who was a renowned researcher and talked to many old Maori through New Zealand to write it all down while the information was fresh.
He gave the whakapapa of Whakaata Te Wheoro, the mother of Harihari.
Apparently her parents were Wharepapa te Whereo and Waikawa and I guess they were from Tauranga also.
Anyone who is descended from Lucy Rauwharangi would probably also have the information I am seeking as Lucy had the same parents as Harihari.
I look forward to hearing from someone about these earlier generations.
Robin
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Logged
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Wiltshire, Somerset, Gloucestershire - Busshe/Bushe/Bush, Le Strange/Strange, Whittington, Gunning, Browning, Maltravers, Rodborough,
Shropshire - le Strange
Wales - Daylwyn or Deulwyn, Rede, Wirriott,
East Sussex - Catt, Ashdown, Barham, Henley, Lawrence, Hepden, Elliott, Phillips
London - Bush, King, Millis, Jarvis, Mellis(s)
Suffolk - Sewell, Knight, Baxter, Martin
Norfolk - Sewell, Larter, Howlett, Bacon
Tasmania, Australia - Bossward, Wellman
Worcestershire - Beach, Shepherd
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