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Topic: MCGEORGE family (Read 7949 times)
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KC
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Hi,
I do not have any more on this family, the partish registers do not add any extra info unfortunately. There does not appear to be any headstones for this family either.
Can you give me ggrandmother's information so I can see if I am able to add anything
cheers
Kay
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lochfoot
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Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Kay. My gggrandmother's information so far:
Margaret Paterson Richardson married Robert Wilson Blacksmith, Lochfoot Lochrutton. No marriage recorded as yet.
Margaret born about 1800, no Record of birth so far.
From Death Cert. died 12 July 1864 aged sixty-four. Father James Richardson, Farmer. Mother Mary McGeorge. From census records she is recorded as being born in Kilpatrick or Kirkpatrick, the names often being confused, but referring most often to Kirkpatck Durham. K. Irongray is of course bordering Lochrutton, so nothing can be assumed. She had seven children. Including my ggrandfather James. Yours, Willie
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KC
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Posts: 23
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Hi,
My McGeorges lived in Lochfoot too around 1780-1840 and also Kirkpatrick Durham, so I suspect they would know of your family!
Did Robert and Margaret Wilson have a daughter Mary born Kirkpatrick around 1829?
If so I might just have something
Kay
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lochfoot
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Kay. Thanks for your reply.
Robert and Margaret certainly had a daughter Mary baptised in Lochrutton 26th Feb 1829. I have census record noted for 1841 when Mary is recorded as 12 years old, but no place of birth. !851 she is married to Wm Geddes, Tailor, and living next door to her parents. Place of birth Lochrutton. If there are McGeorges living in Lochfoot and Kirkpatrick, I feel there is likely to be a connection. I have not been able to find a Mary born in Kirkpatrick at that time, do you have one? As you will know, women often returned to their parent's home for their first birth.
I am really struggling to find Margaret Paterson Richardson's birth. She seemed very keen to hold on to the Paterson name, as it appears in many records, even her death certificate, for which her husband Robert was informant.
Willie
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KC
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Hi Willie,
First, there is no headstones (MIs) for any Richardsons in Kirkpatrick Durham up to 1855.
James Richardson did not leave a will
As you already know, there is no marriage for Mary McGeorge and James Richardson on the IGI . As you will most probably know, civil registration started in 1855 in Scotland and before that we have to rely mainly on parish registers. The registers can be very sparse with large gaps in years. There was a tax levied on entries into the parish registers late 1700s so of course people did not have the events entered. The IGI is mostly for the Established Church of Scotland so if a person was at another church... Free Church, Catholic etc their names will most probably not be in the IGI.
I decided to look for a James Richardson and Mary in the 1841 census and found a couple living in Kirkpatrick Durham. They were the about the right age to be parents to Margaret Paterson Richardson. James 65 cattle dealer, , Mary 60, Janet 25, John 23. None of these names are in the IGI
in 1851 James was 78 born Twynholm, Mary 75 born Parton AND Mary Wilson 22 visitor, born Lochrutton.
Could this be Mary Wilson visiting her grandparents?
I suspect that both James and Mary died before 1855 so no death certificate. I do have about 5 pages of Kirkpatrick Durham deaths printed out. Alas they are about 15yrs old and faded dreadfully. I will go through them and see if I can work out any Richardson names.
The only way I can see to prove all this is to look for their son John's death (born about 1818) to see if his parents names were James Richardson and Mary McGeorge
I could not find a birth for Mary McGeorge in Parton c1776. I will keep looking
However after all that, I notice that you said that Mary was living next to her parents as the wife of Geddes in 1851, so maybe all that above is incorrect.!!
Oh the joys of genealogy, one step forward and two back, mind you if it was so easy, it wouldn't be a challenge?
cheers
Kay
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« Last Edit: Thursday 03 September 09 13:21 UTC (UK) by copyright_editor »
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lochfoot
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Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Kay. Thank you for going to all that trouble. I am very grateful.
You will be pleased to know that you are very likely correct. On checking carefully through my notes and records I found that there were two Marys born in Lochrutton in 1829. They are cousins.
From lds
No 1.
MARY WILSON
Christening: 26 FEB 1829 Lochrutton, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
Father: ROBERT WILSON
No 2
MARY DAVIDSON
Christening: 15 OCT 1829 Lochrutton, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
- Father: WILLIAM DAVIDSON Family
Mother: JANET WILSON
Robert Wilson (myGGgrandfather) and Janet Wilson were both children of William, Blacksmith of Lochfoot (my GGGgrandfather)
By checking the date of the 1851 census, we can see that the 22 year old Mary would be Robert’s daughter, and the 21 year old would be her cousin, Mary Davidson, (now Geddes.) It was my mistake, not checking that out originally.
At that point, I was not aware of the Mary being in Kirkpatrick Durham. I was only aware that Mary Geddes was the Grand daughter of William.
It does get confusing, and at times frustrating, but the achievement is all the better for that, as you suggest.
I had a very similar situation arose in following my wife’s family. A grand daughter on holiday gave a perfect link to grandparents.
I am near to adding that generation back, I think.
There is a James Richerson born in Twynholme in 1773, so that gives another possible stage to search.
Again, thanks, and if you can find anything in your deaths list, that would be terrific. I will go on here with my search. Willie
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KC
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Posts: 23
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Hi Willie,
Pleased to be of help. it certainly gets confusing when each generation has the same surnames..John, Mary etc. Having said that it does help when I am researching the McGeorge name as usually Walter belongs to about only 3 families, Samuel (including mine) in about 4 and so on. It helps to identify the families quite quickly
I will be in touch if I find anything
cheers
Kay
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Jeansgirl
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Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello, I've found the McGeorge information fascinating but confusing ! There seem to have been (at least)2 Elizabeth Mcgeorges in Urr at same time.One was daughter of Thomas & Jean Nicholson (IGI, C118842)As far as I can see, she married John Bell, Miller,in Nov 1831. The other(much mentoned) married James Murrey in March 1832 .
John Bell the miller (1792-1864) died at Springholm & was remembered on MI in Crossmichael (with parents), and his wife Elizabeth McGeorge (1807-1893) died in Wigan, having lived with her single son William(a draper) and then daughter(census). Meanwhile, back in Urr, John McGeorge (1797-1853) died Springholm & is remembered with his wife Agnes Seaton(d New Abbey) and children, incl,Robert Seaton McGeorge & John Seaton McG-drapers in Preston.I have yet to find out whether John & Elizabeth were siblings.
My gggm Jane Toolan, nee Bell, b Crossmichael c1829, died Pendlebury Lancs 1884,may have been John's daughter.She called one of her sons 'James seaton T'' & another William Bell Barnes T.' Barnes ' was husband of Wilhelmina, definite daugher of John the miller( m certs), also born Crossmichael who eventually lived next door to Jane in Pendlebury. But both Willie and my Jane were born before John's marriage with Elizabeth McGeorge. John, whilst still at Crossmichael Mill had a son John (b 1820) with Agnes Brolochan, (word 'lawful' ommitted from OPR) but she later (late1830s)became 2nd Mrs Rafferty in Crossmichael.
I obviously need to see Kirk Sessions, but can't visit Scotland. I've looked at original (incomplete)registers at my local LDS Family His. Centre. Any advice, please, re access to this and other types of record?. And any knowledge of Springholm and also Auchenreoch Miln ? I can find former on OS map, but not the mill. Both feature continuously in the records I've found. Thanks !
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annemaj
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Posts: 35
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My husband is a direct descendant of John McGeorge and Jean Baxter, parents of an Elizabeth McGeorge born 1807 Springholm, Urr. John and Jean had at least two children before they were married, Elizabeth being one of them, the marriage taking place abt. 1816 in Springholm, I've never found an actual record of it, but have seen the Kirk Session records about Elizabeth which read as follows:
"Monday May 4th 1807, Baptized at Grange of Urr, a child christened Elizabeth to Jean Baxter in Miln of Auchenreoch. The father, John McGeorge, in the same place (Auchenreoch) had satisfied the Church, for the crime of fornication with the above-mentioned woman, but refused to present the child, so that this duty fell on its mother."
John McGeorge was the son of a Peter McGeorge about whom I know nothing, and was always in trouble with the Kirk elders over girls!! As his father was Peter McGeorge, he was not brother to your Elizabeth. As you know, my Elizabeth McGeorge married James Murray March 1832 Haugh of Urr, Kirkudbright, he was about 40 years older than her and had been married before. They had six children before James died in 1844, Elizabeth died in 1891 in Springholm. One of their sons, James Murray born 1840, went to London and became a draper and married Agnes Catherine Irving there, she was born 1836 in Caerlaverock, Dumfries, but whether they knew each other before going to London is not known. James and Agnes took their family to Austalia in 1877.
I can look at both the Kirk Session records 1806-1847 and the Urr parish records, but it might not be until next week.
Hope this has helped with one of the Elizabeth McGeorges!
Anne
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Jeansgirl
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Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Very many thanks, Anne. It all makes very interesting reading. I didn't mention , but you may already know, that the John McGeorge who married Agnes Seaton has a memorial (202) in Urr next to your John McGeorge(204) who married Jane Baxter. With Jane Baxter living to age of 101 & 8months, no doubt she had some tales to tell.
Regards S
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annemaj
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 35
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Yes, I do know about the MIs as I have access to a book which has transcripts of all the MIs in Urr. If you want anyone looked up just let me know. I also have access to books with MI transcripts for places around Urr. When I first found out that Jean Baxter lived to such an age I thought it was a mistake! Elizabeth McGeorge never married again after James Murray died, so she was a long time a widow. One of her brothers, William, also came to Australia in the 1850s and I have his death certificate from New South Wales. I wonder if that influenced James Murray to follow his uncle and take the trip to Oz?
Cheers,
Anne
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KC
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Posts: 23
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Hi Jeansgirl and Anne,
This is what I have on Thomas McGeorge and Jean Nicholson
Descendants of Thomas McGeorge
Generation No. 1
1. THOMAS1 MCGEORGE was born Abt. 1769 in Scotland, and died 27 Nov 1832 in Mill Hall, Urr KKD Sct1. He married JANE NICHOLSON. She was born Abt. 1779 in Scotland, and died 26 May 1849 in Mill Hall, Urr KKD Sct1.
Notes for THOMAS MCGEORGE:
Kirkpatrick Durham MI (as transcribed in the booklet)
imo Thomas McGeorge, d Mill Hall 27.11.1832, 63
w Jane Nicholson d Mill Hall 26.5.1849, 70
s Wm d Springholm 14.11.1863 55
More About THOMAS MCGEORGE:
Burial: Nov 1832, Kirkpatrick Durham, KKD Sct
Family: 13
Occupation: farmer
Residence: Mill Hall, Urr
More About JANE NICHOLSON:
Burial: May 1849, Kirkpatrick Durham, KKD Sct
Family: 13
Children of THOMAS MCGEORGE and JANE NICHOLSON are:
i. MARY2 MCGEORGE, b. Abt. 25 Mar 1803, Irongray, KKD, Sct2.
More About MARY MCGEORGE:
Family: 13
ii. WILLIAM MCGEORGE, b. Abt. 28 Aug 1804, Irongray, KKD, Sct2; d. 14 Nov 1862, Springholm, Urr, KKD, Sct3.
Notes for WILLIAM MCGEORGE:
Kirkpatrick Durham MI (as transcribed in the booklet)
imo Thomas McGeorge, d Mill Hall 27.11.1832, 63
w Jane Nicholson d Mill Hall 26.5.1849, 70
s Wm d Springholm 14.11.1863 55
1841 census
Urr Mill Hall
William McGeorge 30 farmer
Jean Nicholson 60
1851 census
Kelton, Potterland Mill
John Bell 51
Elizabeth 45 Urr
William McGeorge 45 bil ag lab Irongray
(Elisa Bell 43
Elisa Bell 18
James C Bell 16
John Bell 51
John M C Bell 10
Mary Bell 12
Thomas Bell 14
William Bell 7
William McGeorge 45 ?
1861 census
Kelton, Potterland Mill
John Bell, HM 68 miller, Eng
Elizabeth 54 Urr
and family
William McGeorge bil 56U Irongray
Death certificate
Urr
14 Nov 1862
William McGeorge, 57yrs, house proprieter, single, at Springholm
parents: Thomas McGeorge, small farmer & dec & Jane Nicholson
cause: chronic bronchitis
informant: Elizabeth Bell, sister and sick nurse
More About WILLIAM MCGEORGE:
Burial: Nov 1862, Kirkpatrick Durham, KKD Sct4
Family: 13
Occupation: ag lab
Residence: Urr KKD Sct
iii. ELIZABETH MCGEORGE, b. Abt. 24 Aug 1807, Urr, KKD, Sct5; d. 06 Apr 1893, Wigan, LAN, Eng6; m. JOHN BELL, 1832, Urr, KKD, Sct; b. Abt. 1792, England7; d. 08 Jan 18648.
Notes for ELIZABETH MCGEORGE:
Urr Parish register
Scandals done away
Monday 24th August 1807
Bp to Thomas McGeorge and Jean Nicholson in Auchenreoch, a daughter christened Elizabeth and then presented the child for baptism, the father being under church... Elizabeth born Sunday 9 August 1807
Marriages
1832
John Bell and William McGeorge reperesenting his daughter Elizabeth McGeorge
John Bell and Elizabeth McGeorge
1841
Elizabeth Bell
Age: 34
Born: Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Springholm
Urr
Kirkcudbrightshire
Elizabeth Bell 34
Elizabeth Bell 9
James Bell 7
John Bell 44
John Bell 1
Mary Bell 75
Mary Bell 3
Thomas Bell 5
Margaret Concha 15
Agnes Ferguson 15
1851 census
Kelton, Potterland Mill
John Bell 51
Elizabeth 45 Urr
William McGeorge bil ag lab Irongray
1861 census
Kelton, Potterland Mill
John Bell, HM 68 miller, Eng
Elizabeth 54 Urr
and family
William McGeorge bil 56U Irongray
Crossmichael MIs (as transcibed by the Scottish Society )
#56 next to 40
Jas Bell d Auchenreoch Miln 10.3.1833, 76,
da Eliz d Crossmichael Miln 19.12.1815, 27
Prepare for death, make no delay, You see how youth is call'd away
w Mary Pearson d Auchenreaoch Miln 20.11.1841 78, gs
Jas Concar 4.6.1823 (fa Samuel Conchar, mason)
John Bell 8.1.1864 72
w Eliz McGeorge d Wigan 6.4.1893 86
#40
John Conchar d Over Arkland 19.12.1892 80,
w Janet Hyslop d Burnside Crossmichael 10.5.1887 72
More About ELIZABETH MCGEORGE:
Family: 13
More About JOHN BELL:
Family: 13
Endnotes
1. MI.
2. OPR.
3. cert.
4. MI.
5. OPR.
6. MI.
7. census.
8. MI.
cheers
Kay
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« Last Edit: Thursday 03 September 09 13:20 UTC (UK) by copyright_editor »
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KC
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 23
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I tried to paste this but it was too big. If you would like to email me at (*)
I can send it to you.
just trying to work out your family
Where did your gggm Jane Tollan nee Bell get married and to whom?
How do you know Wilhemina was Jane's sister. When and to whom did she marry.
How did you connect Jane with John Bell and Elizabeth McGeorge
It is so annoying that the English death certs don't have parents mentioned. Pity that Elizabeth did not die in Scotland. There does not seem to be a death notice in the Dumfries newspapers
It certainly does seem if those the families are all connected as Jane did call her sons with the Christian including Seaton and Bell
cheers
Kay
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« Last Edit: Thursday 03 September 09 09:40 UTC (UK) by aghadowey »
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Jeansgirl
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Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you both, Anne & Kay. I've got to go out in a short while, so I'll just stick to the Wilhelmina question for now. The 41 census had one Jane bell of right age in Crossmichael (my Jane gave this as birthplace in 51,61 &71) 3 other young adults, Robert,John & Wilhelmina (1826), also working away from home (separately)in Crossmichael.Siblings?
1851. Willie Bell,(1826)living Balmaghie with McMegn family, Dairymaid b Crossmichael.(couldn't find her for long time.Eventually'' Willie+1826+Scotland ''flushed her out)
1850 OPR Kirkbean Thomas Toolin (many different spellings!)of this parish & Jane Bell of Castle Douglas proclaimed for 3rd and last time (June 30) Actually married ''July 5th 1851'' (sic. mistake ? ) 1850 in Castle Douglas (Info in birth certs of children 1868,1870)
1850 John Tollin son of Thomas Tollin & Jane Bell Castle Douglas b 5/12, bap 11/12 (OPR Kelton)
1851 Jane Towland(head) living Castle Douglas with John 4 mths. No sign of Thomas.b ?? of Kirkend, Crossmichael
1855(9/12) Willy Bell m John Barnes-both of full age. Barton upon Irwell, Parish church of Eccles. John Widower, Willy spinster, both living PendleburyWillie's father, John Bell, Miller
1861 Pendlebury/Eccles. John 41, Wilhelmina 38 James 1? John 2 b Pendlebury
1864 Nov . Toolans still living Scotland (Campsie) In Nov 2nd child William (b 53) died from lacerated arm (he worked in printworks) and 7th child born, within days. Child named William Bell Barnes Toolan
1865 Willie Barnes m Robert Worsley (widow & batchelor) He was drayman, she publican. Willie's father ''John Bell, Miller) St John's Church
1871Willie & Robert living in Bolton Rd, Pendlebury with her 2 sons(& his niece)
1881.Willie & Robert living 88 North Road, Pendlebury.Toolans living 2 doors away.
I do not know for sure that Willie is Jane's sister. Evidence circumstantial ! Robert(41 Crossmichael ) one of the 4 young adults turned out to be son of William & Jane (nee Johnstone), and as they were of an age to have kids flown the nest, they were my prime candidates for some time. Willie & Jane could also be life long friends ??
Connection John Bell the Miller & Elizabeth McGeorge ?? MI & census. 'My ' Jane in 41 was living with Margaret Brolochan who was mother of Agnes. John Bell of Crossmichael Miln & Agnes had baby John 1820 (OpR) John's sister(MI) died at Crossmichael Miln, in 1815, so presumably their address before Potterland.
Must go.
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KC
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 23
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I have just across this on the Gould Book shop web site (Adelaide, Australia)
The Bell Family in Dumfreisshire
Our Price: AU$34.50
Sale Price: AU$22.50
You Save AU$12.00!
This work is an extremely thorough study of the Bell family, and works through branch by branch, parish by parish. In all the author discusses over 29 different branches of the family ...
http://www.gould.com.au/
You maybe able to get it closer to where you live
Kay
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