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Topic: Orr family- Lurgan to Brazil (Read 2824 times)
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vroborr
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello,
Im Victor Orr from Brazil, My Great-Grandfather was Samuel Robert Orr from Lurgan. He lived in Turmoyra House and married with Anna Rosaline Clarke in 1909 at the Manor House, Lurgan, he had one son called Samuel Derek Orr, my grandfather, and a daughter called Elizabeth Patricia Orr.
Samuel R. Orr came to Brazil in 1915 with Citibank, who was manager.
John Orr was Samuel's Father and i wanna know about his, where is he buried?
I don' t know about Sarah Orr, must be Samuel's Sister.
Samuel R. Orr and his descendants are buried in Rio de Jeneiro, Brazil.
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aghadowey
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 15093
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Victor- have split this topic from Orr family Lurgan thread so it won't get lost among the other messages and renamed it.
I suspect that the Sarah W. Orr in 1912 Ulster Covenant might be Samuel's mother.
Griffith's Valuation for Turmoyra townland in Seagoe Parish (1864) shows no one named Orr but there is a Samuel Ruddell with approx. 70 acres 1 rod 37 perches of land rented from Lord Lurgan and several cottages he's subletting.
http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/gv_place_search_form.php
There's a Will Extract on PRONI site (www.proni.gov.uk where you'll find Will searches and Ulster Covenant) which might be connected to Sarah (Ruddell) Orr:
Jane Eliza Ruddell, spinster, late of Turmoyra, died 14 Feb.1902, value £412 1s 8d, letters of administration granted to Mary Eccles widow. From other searches she's probably the Mrs. Eccles living at Turmoyra House.
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KatC
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 90
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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This is from the 1901 census TURMOYRA
31 possibly William W. T. (K or H.) Ruddell COI 58 farmer Armagh, Jane E. Ruddell Sister 60 neither married, Sarah W. Orr sister married 51 Mary Eccles 64 sister widow W. R. P. Eccles L?L.H. nephew 34 not married born Down weaver
I don't see any signs of Samuel.
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aghadowey
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 15093
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Looks like Mary Eccles came back home after husband died- PRONI Will Extracts show William Gelderd Eccles died 3 Feb.1869 (widow Mary Eccles, Turmoyra).
1910 Ulster directory- Lurgan:
Eccles, W. R. P., LL.D., Turmoyra
(probably the William in 1901 Census)
www.libraryireland.com/UlsterDirectory1910/Lurgan.php
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vroborr
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have the copy of certificate of marriage.
Under the authority of a special license grouted by the moderator of the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church in Ireland.
Marriage Solemnized at The Manor House, Lurgan in the Registrar's District of Lurgan in the County of Armagh.
Date: 22/Sep/1909
Samuel Robert Orr:
Age - 30
Condition - bachelor
Profession - Banker
Residence at the time - Turmoyra House, Lurgan
Father's name - John Orr
Anna Rosaline Clarke:
Age - 27
Condition - Spinster
Residence at the time - Manor House, Lurgan
Father's name - Walter Clarke
Married at the Manor House, Lurgan according to the form discipline of the Presbyterian Church by W. B Sproull in the presence of W. R. Priest Eccles and Cissy Clarke.
The informations are
I wanna know where the grave of John Orr and Sarah Wilhelmina Ruddell Orr?
If Samuel R. A. Orr had any brother or sister.
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aghadowey
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 15093
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"Under the authority of a special license grouted by the moderator..." should read "Under the authority of a special license granted by the moderator ..."
It's possible that John Orr and his wife Sarah are buried in the local churchyard (either their own church of the Parush (Church of Ireland) church) but such records aren't usually found online- most Presbyterian churches don't keep burial records. Some Church of Ireland churches only recorded burials of their members, also, many C.of I. records lost in 1920s.
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vroborr
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank You very much for this informations, i and my family from Brazil never know about it. 
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KatC
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 90
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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The Orr/Clarke marriage took place in the Lurgan First Presbyterian Church because that was Walter Clarke and wife Martha McClelland's church and also the church of Walter's parents, Thomas and Ann.
Their Orr children were not baptized at that church and John Orr/Ruddell marriage was not held there, so it is unlikely the burials were there.
I would look for the church that this marriage was held at:
HARRIET ATKINSON
JOHN ORR
03 DEC 1846 Drumcree, Armagh, Ireland per LDS
This is about the right timing for them to be the parents of your John Orr and John and Sarah might be buried there.
Samuel Ruddell of Turmoyra and Mary Mulligan had Elizabeth 1829, John 1830, Anna 1835, and Mary 1837 baptized in that Presbyterian church. This should be Mary Eccles. He also had a child in the 1850's I assume, but I am missing that page. This could be Sarah or William.
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vroborr
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Do you know About the date of birth, death and place of John Atkinson Orr and sarah Wilhelmina Ruddell Orr, John Orr and Harriet Atkinson Orr, Samuel Ruddell and Mary Mulligan Ruddell, Samuel Robert Atkinson Orr and Anna Rosaline Clarke Orr, Walter Clarke and Martha McClellan Clarke, Thomas Clarke and Ann Clarke.
Where are the graves of them?
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« Last Edit: Thursday 12 March 09 04:58 UTC (UK) by vroborr »
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aghadowey
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 15093
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You may not be aware of this, but civil registration of births, deaths and Catholic marriages in Ireland started in 1864 (from 1845 for other marriages) so before those dates there are no certificates. For earlier records tyou need to check church records (if they exist).
Also, death certificates do not list place of burial and most Presbyterian churches do not keep burial records (although many Presbyterians are buried in Church of Ireland graveyard).
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KatC
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 90
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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As a wild guess, the Orrs if from Drumcree area might have gone to a Portadown church, but I have no information on them. You might look at the LDS site's for Armagh Orrs to see if any connection shows up. I have some early Seagoe records and no Orrs appear in the 15 years worth.
The Clarkes are as follows from Lurgan First Presbyterian Church records, census records, etc. The church records are not complete, but I am not finding Thomas and Ann baptizing their children in the church. Mary said she was born in Tandragee, so the family may have moved to Lurgan late. Ann probably was going there in 1901. Griffith must list Thomas, but I didn't check. This tree does not contain the more recently found information found below.
1 Thomas Clarke farmer
. +Ann b: Abt. 1820 (says 82 in 1901)
2 Walter Clarke b: 1857 Lurgan First Presbyterian 44 in 1901 census
.... +Martha McClelland b: 1859 42 in 1901 census
.. 3 Meta Clarke b: 1882 Might be Martha
...... +Robert John Dickson Downpatrick lawyer
.. 3 Lina Clarke b: 1883 perhaps Ann Pauline Clarke who m. Robert Orr son of John in 1909
.. 3 Sarah McCLelland Clarke b: August 1883
.. 3 Thomas Walter Clarke b: November 20, 1884
.. 3 David Malcomson Clarke b: 1888
.. 3 Margaret Whiteside Clarke b: May 29, 1890
.. 3 Molly Mary McDonald Clarke b: May 14, 1891
.. 3 William Clarke b: August 03, 1892
.. 3 James Whiteside Clarke b: February 06, 1884
.. 3 Robert McClelland Clarke b: February 14, 1885
.. 3 Ernest Clarke b: 1887
.. 3 Elizabeth Gladys Clarke b: July 30, 1900
.. 3 Russell Clarke no birth date given bapt in 1896
.. 3 Samuel George Ernest Clarke b: February 11, 1897
.. 3 Anna Rosaline Clarke b: September 07, 1882 Jane Rosalin when she signs Martha's wedding to Dickson
...... +Samuel Robert Orr b: April 04, 1879 Father: John Orr Mother: Sarah Wilhelmina Ruddell
2 Annie Clarke
.... +John Malcomson
.. 3 John Malcomson b: March 28, 1889
2 Louisa Clarke b: 1859
.... +John Malcomson b: 1859 Presby hardware merchant in 1901 Lurgan
.. 3 Louisa Emily Malcomson b: October 25, 1884
.. 3 Elizabeth Malcomson b: 1882
.. 3 Mary Malcomson b.1883
.. 3 John H. K. Malcomson b: 1887
.. 3 Violet Malcomson b: 1897
2 Thomas Clarke d: January 21, 1881 probably, see wills victualer in will, hoteller? at marriage
.... +Letitia Wells 19 at marriage Feb 7, 1868 Father: Matthew Wells
.. 3 Jane Clarke b: August 08, 1873
.. 3 Letitia Clarke
see second message
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KatC
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 90
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Census 1901 Lurgan
64 Church Place, Lurgan John Malcomson Presby 42 hardware merchant Armagh born family Louisa 42 Elizabeth 19 Mary 18 John H. K. 14 Violet 4 Ann Clarke MIL COI 82 widowed Ann Moore servant RC 20 Armagh
144 possibly Ellis Ct., Lurgan (This tape was in bad shape, if you need more information, let me know)
Walter Clarke Presby 44 grocer? Martha 42 Meta 19 Lina 18 Sarah 17 Thomas W. 16 David M. 13 Margaret D 10 Molly M. 9, William 8, James D. 7, Robert 6, Ernest 4, Betty G? Or J? 8 Susan Armstrong 26 servant
95 Letitia Clarke Presby 52 widow Armagh Letitia Clarke dau 22, Mary Ann Hinds COI 28 servant Armagh
3. John Clarke Mary wife, William 9, John 8, Sarah 6 Thomas 4, Francis son 2 Mary 3 months Presby family
Market Street
David Malcomson Presby 72 retired grocer Co. Down, wife Mary 56 Armagh (tandragee) kids b. Lurgan David 30 solicitor Annie Louisa 28 spinster , James 27, Martha 25 spinster Elizabeth 22 spinster & RC servant
30 Albert Malcomson Presby 31 Hardware merchant Armagh wife Eliza 28, son David Clarke Malcomson 1 boarding is grocer asst Alexander Malcomson 30 Presby Down, James McAllister Presby Antrim 23, John Agnew Presby 27, Hardware asst, Tyrone, David Malcomson 29 Hardware Asst Down , George Hurst COI 21 bookeeping Fermanagh, David Sinclair McElroy Presby Hardware Down 18
Church records as best as I can read them
To David Malcomson and Mary Clarke Lurgan Merchant
Albert George June 18? , 1869 , David, Nov 3, 1870 ,Anna Louisa b. Mar 23, 1872 Lurgan, James Aug 19, 1874, Martha b. Aug 7, 1875,Walter b. Dec 28, 1876, Mary Elizabeth May 1878
To John Malcomson and Louisa Clarke
Annie Evangeline Mary July 29, 1882, Louisa Emily Oct 25, or 26, 1875, John (can’t read the 2 middle names yet) MARCH 28, 1887, Eileen Sarah August 1889, Violet McDonald Nov 12, 1896
To Walter Clarke and Martha McClelland
Anna Rosaline Sept 7, 1882 , Sarah McClelland Aug 6, 1884, Thomas Walter Nov 23, 1874 bapt with John M.’s child, David Malcomson June 18, 1887 baptized with Louisa & John Malcomson’s child Margaret Whiteside May? 1889 bap with Louisa’s child, Mary McDonald May 14, 1891, William August 3, 1892, James Whiteside Feb 6, 1894, Robert McClelland Feb 14, 1895, Russell no date but bapt with Thomas and Sarah Duke’s child, Samuel George ?Something? FEB 11. 1897, Elizabeth Gladys July 30, 1900
Thomas Clarke moved from Lurgan to Springfield. I don’t know where he fits the tree, but he is obviously a family member
Thomas Clarke+Sara Jane Duke had Thomas Clarke b: February 9, 1896, Anne Kathleen Clarke b: January 16, 1893 , Sarah Eileen Clarke no birthdate given 1900, Mary Letitia Clarke b: December 11, 1894, Thomas Mica? Wells June 17, 1908, Florence Alice Wells June 17, 1908, Gertrude Louise Sept 10. 1910
Thomas James White and Mary Letitia Clarke of Springfield had Mary Dorothea Hamilton on Mar 27, 1920
John Kernahan and Gertrude Clarke of Lurgan had John Clarke Sept 25, 1935, David Clark Aug 13, 1939
Thomas Clarke and Mabel Bateman of Springfield had Robert Joseph Ian (possibly another middle name) on
Oct 9, 1938
Marriages- partial listing only I will look for more
Mary Letitia dau of Thomas of Lurgan married Thomas James White of Glasgow Lt in Army, son of James April 16, 1919
Annie Kathleen dau of Thomas of Springfield m. Lt John McLaren of Belfast son of John McLaren June 18, 1919
Margaret Clarke, dau of Walter m. James Taylor Elliott of Strabane son of Wm a wine merchant Nov 8, 1915
Elizabeth Glady Clarke dau of Walter m. Wallace John Talbot, civil Servant of Belfast son of WM Irwin Inspector of Cattle for Army? Nov 11, 1924
Mary Elizabeth Malcomson dau of A;bert George m. Edgar John Byrne, banker of Ballyclae son of John estate agent
Other Clarkes in records with no obvious connection
James Clarke amd Ann Jane Magennis had Jane Oct 26? 1827
James Rogers and Eleanor Clarke had Thomas Mar 25, 1830
Alex Hurst and Sarah Clarke had Grace Sept 27, 1832, Mary Ann Aug 29? 1834
Archibald Clarke and Jane Ferguson had Cherry July 1, 1848, Lurgan he was a whitesmith Anna July 5, 1861
John McIlroy and Margaret Clarke had Thomas July 3, 1878, James July 28, 1880, Robert Mar 24, 1882, Agnes Mar 5, 1884, John May 1887
Hugh Ferguson and Margaret Clarke had Mary Jane Dec 28, 1896
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KatC
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 90
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Forget the Lina marriage to an Orr, I misread the records
Feb 27, 1847 Andrew Clarke, gardener of Lurgan father Andrew of Tarsan married Mary Donaghy father Aiken of Lurgan, farmer both were 27 years old
The early Clarkes do not sound like your family. Thomas Clarke/Wells marriage in 1868 sounds like the first definitely connected marriage in the church records. I did not see any other than those listed previously.
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vroborr
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Is LDS means Later-Day Saints? I don't know what mean IGI. Who was Cissy Clarke, she was present (witness) at the Anna Rosaline Clarke's marriage.
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