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Author Topic: Elizabeth Murray birth certificate decipher - help please - COMPLETE - thanks  (Read 1902 times)
stuartroxy
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Elizabeth Murray birth certificate decipher - help please - COMPLETE - thanks
« on: Sunday 08 March 09 18:26 UTC (UK) »
Elizabeth Murray was born in Duffus in 1803; she later married John Slorach of Forres (in 1828 in Golspie - not sure why) and gave birth to my gg-grandad Charles Skene Slora (I think!)

Any ideas on deciphering the birth certificate, please?

* Elizabeth_Murray_-_1803_Closeup.jpg (202.11 KB, 1000x151 - viewed 231 times.)
« Last Edit: Tuesday 17 March 09 20:42 UTC (UK) by stuartroxy » Logged
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stuartroxy
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Elizabeth Murray birth certificate decipher - help please
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 08 March 09 18:36 UTC (UK) »
Ignoring the 'both in Burghead' - from the previous entry, I think that it reads:

"Oct 4th 1803  Elizabeth, maternal daughter to John Murray and Margaret Jeans in Arrydykes (?) was (named) and bapt'd 8th inst (?).  Witt'd Peter Murray in Bishopmill.  (?) Jeans in Arrydykes (?) May 28th 1802 (next entry) and Elizabeth Murray in Forres"

Stuart
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flst
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Elizabeth Murray birth certificate decipher - help please
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 08 March 09 21:50 UTC (UK) »
I think the word is "natural" not maternal, & the name (?) is Alexr.
Regards
flst
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TAYLOR, COBBAN, SCOTT, PATERSON, BARCLAY,  DUNCAN, SKENE, SIM, WOOD, STEPHEN, ROSE,  CUMINE, MORISON, GERRARD, PYPER, ANDERSON,  FARQUHAR, BURNET, THOMSON, DAVIDSON, BIRNIE,  STRACHAN, DEY, GERRIE, ROBERTSON, FINNIE,  WYLLIE,STEPHEN,WILLOX,MICHIE,MARR,BRUCE, CLUBB,SLESSOR,CLARK, SIMPSON,HEPBURN,SINCLAIR,BEEDIE,FOWLIE, CLYNE,FINDLATER,JOHNSTON,BROCKIE,PARK, WATT,MACKIE,WALKER,YEATS,THIRD, BURD,EWAN,ARTHUR,AUCKLAND, MURDOCH,LOW,IRVINE,CHALMERS,BOYES, LYON,SMITH,ADIE,WATSON - ALL N.E.SCOTLAND.
genjen
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Re: Elizabeth Murray birth certificate decipher - help please
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 08 March 09 21:58 UTC (UK) »
I agree with "natural".

I'd say Arnydykes and would say that the mother was possibly Margaret Lewis?

Jen
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Essex: Howe French Cant Annis Noakes Turner Marshall Makerow DUCK Spurden HARMONY
N.E.Scotland: Howe Shaw Raitt Milne Forsyth Birnie Crichton Duncan McBeath Daniel Hay Robertson Jaffrey Smith McDonald Alexander Craighead
NR Yorks: Bushby Smith Bland Iley Cunion Kendrew Thornbury Favell Lonsdale Crossland Rudd Pratt Gibson
Westmorland: Dickenson, Jackson Ewbank Waller
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genjen
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Re: Elizabeth Murray birth certificate decipher - help please
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 08 March 09 22:01 UTC (UK) »
Actually, ignore the Lewis bit from my last post,  on second viewing, I'll go with Jeans.

Jen
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Essex: Howe French Cant Annis Noakes Turner Marshall Makerow DUCK Spurden HARMONY
N.E.Scotland: Howe Shaw Raitt Milne Forsyth Birnie Crichton Duncan McBeath Daniel Hay Robertson Jaffrey Smith McDonald Alexander Craighead
NR Yorks: Bushby Smith Bland Iley Cunion Kendrew Thornbury Favell Lonsdale Crossland Rudd Pratt Gibson
Westmorland: Dickenson, Jackson Ewbank Waller
Staffs: White Knight
Surrey: Knight
Durham: Smith
Hants: Williams Grose Lush Venson
PrueM
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Re: Elizabeth Murray birth certificate decipher - help please
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 08 March 09 22:11 UTC (UK) »
MURRAY
Oct 4th 1803 Elizabeth, natural
daughter to John Murray and Margaret Jeans in Armydykes was
was baptd the 8th [...] (doesn't look like 'inst' but probably the only thing that fits).  Witts Peter Murry in Bishopmilne, Alexr
Jeans in Armydykes &c May 28 1802 and Elizabeth
Murray in For[r]es.

The dates are a bit weird - not sure how 28th May 1802 fits in  Huh
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I live in NSW, and am researching:
BALFOUR (Derry) – BIGG (Kent) – BONSALL (DBY, NTT, CHS) – BRISBANE (Fife) – DANKS (STS) – DOBSON (BRK) – FRANCIS (ESS) – GOODE (HAM) – HAYNES (Cork) – INGRAM (MDX, SOM) – LANGWORTHY (Jersey, DEV) – MCKAY (Fife, Aberdeen, Banff, Moray) – MORRISH (LND) – NANCARROW (CON) – OGILVIE (Moray, LND) – STRATHDEE (LND, Banff) - SWAN (Fife)
stuartroxy
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Elizabeth Murray birth certificate decipher - help please
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 08 March 09 22:12 UTC (UK) »
Thanks.

I'll go along with 'natural' and 'Alexander'.  I also thought 'Lewis'!

I am having difficulty finding a place called Arnydykes (or any variation that I can think of).

Stuart
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stuartroxy
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Elizabeth Murray birth certificate decipher - help please
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 08 March 09 22:16 UTC (UK) »
The dates are a bit weird. 

It looks like Elizabeth's details were added later.  The previous record is dated April 1st 1802 and the record after is dated May 28th 1802 - so why is Elizabeth dated Oct 4th 1803?

Stuart
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flst
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Elizabeth Murray birth certificate decipher - help please
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 08 March 09 22:17 UTC (UK) »
For anyone interested in the surname Jeans,there are 182 names mentioned in the records of www.libindx.moray.gov.uk
flst
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TAYLOR, COBBAN, SCOTT, PATERSON, BARCLAY,  DUNCAN, SKENE, SIM, WOOD, STEPHEN, ROSE,  CUMINE, MORISON, GERRARD, PYPER, ANDERSON,  FARQUHAR, BURNET, THOMSON, DAVIDSON, BIRNIE,  STRACHAN, DEY, GERRIE, ROBERTSON, FINNIE,  WYLLIE,STEPHEN,WILLOX,MICHIE,MARR,BRUCE, CLUBB,SLESSOR,CLARK, SIMPSON,HEPBURN,SINCLAIR,BEEDIE,FOWLIE, CLYNE,FINDLATER,JOHNSTON,BROCKIE,PARK, WATT,MACKIE,WALKER,YEATS,THIRD, BURD,EWAN,ARTHUR,AUCKLAND, MURDOCH,LOW,IRVINE,CHALMERS,BOYES, LYON,SMITH,ADIE,WATSON - ALL N.E.SCOTLAND.
PrueM
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Re: Elizabeth Murray birth certificate decipher - help please
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 08 March 09 22:20 UTC (UK) »
Quote from: stuartroxy on Sunday 08 March 09 22:12 UTC (UK)
Thanks.

I'll go along with 'natural' and 'Alexander'.  I also thought 'Lewis'!

I am having difficulty finding a place called Arnydykes (or any variation that I can think of).

Stuart

Yes, I typed in "Armydykes" and got some rather 'interesting' hits  Tongue Grin

There is a place called Dyke just west of Forres...
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Paper and Photograph Conservator
I live in NSW, and am researching:
BALFOUR (Derry) – BIGG (Kent) – BONSALL (DBY, NTT, CHS) – BRISBANE (Fife) – DANKS (STS) – DOBSON (BRK) – FRANCIS (ESS) – GOODE (HAM) – HAYNES (Cork) – INGRAM (MDX, SOM) – LANGWORTHY (Jersey, DEV) – MCKAY (Fife, Aberdeen, Banff, Moray) – MORRISH (LND) – NANCARROW (CON) – OGILVIE (Moray, LND) – STRATHDEE (LND, Banff) - SWAN (Fife)
flst
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Elizabeth Murray birth certificate decipher - help please
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 08 March 09 22:33 UTC (UK) »
Looking at an old map of the area I came across a place near Bishopmill called Ardgye. Could this be what we're looking for?
flst
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TAYLOR, COBBAN, SCOTT, PATERSON, BARCLAY,  DUNCAN, SKENE, SIM, WOOD, STEPHEN, ROSE,  CUMINE, MORISON, GERRARD, PYPER, ANDERSON,  FARQUHAR, BURNET, THOMSON, DAVIDSON, BIRNIE,  STRACHAN, DEY, GERRIE, ROBERTSON, FINNIE,  WYLLIE,STEPHEN,WILLOX,MICHIE,MARR,BRUCE, CLUBB,SLESSOR,CLARK, SIMPSON,HEPBURN,SINCLAIR,BEEDIE,FOWLIE, CLYNE,FINDLATER,JOHNSTON,BROCKIE,PARK, WATT,MACKIE,WALKER,YEATS,THIRD, BURD,EWAN,ARTHUR,AUCKLAND, MURDOCH,LOW,IRVINE,CHALMERS,BOYES, LYON,SMITH,ADIE,WATSON - ALL N.E.SCOTLAND.
stuartroxy
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Elizabeth Murray birth certificate decipher - help please
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 08 March 09 22:43 UTC (UK) »
Prue,

I did the same -  Huh

I have Elizabeth on the 1871 census - it definately give birthplace as Duffus; I can only think that 'Arnydykes' is a farm (or the likes).

Interestingly enough (in my opinion anyway Grin) on the BBC1 programme 'Who Do You Think You Are?' featuring Fiona Bruce - her family hail from Hopeman - it was mentioned that the village of Hopeman was founded in 1805 when a local landlord (Young IIRC) moved his tenants to the coast: perhaps the residents of Arnydykes became some of the first residents of Hopeman?

I will try to visit the (former) East End Primary School when they open again for the summer to check the local documentation.

Stuart
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MonicaLesl
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Re: Elizabeth Murray birth certificate decipher - help please
« Reply #12 on: Monday 09 March 09 09:04 UTC (UK) »
Hi All  Smiley

The IGI entry has Elizabeth indexed as:

ELIZABETH MURRAY OR JEANS  Christening: 08 OCT 1803  Duffus in Moray
Parents:JOHN MURRAY and MARGARET JEANS

My understanding of records of this time is that when the word 'natural daughter' is used, it normally means that the birth was illegitimate.

Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........

Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
stuartroxy
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Elizabeth Murray birth certificate decipher - help please
« Reply #13 on: Monday 09 March 09 09:35 UTC (UK) »
Monica,

Thanks,

I did suspect that.  The wording is markedly different from the previous entries and the IGI index - SP is the same.  Not the first that I've found Wink

Still struggling with 'Armydykes' and why Elizabeth would get married in Golspie - unless it is a different Elizabeth and John Slorach.

Stuart
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MonicaLesl
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Re: Elizabeth Murray birth certificate decipher - help please
« Reply #14 on: Monday 09 March 09 10:50 UTC (UK) »
Ahh...that Elizabeth Murray!

I couldn't easily find them before in the early censuses. Just found them on the 1851 census transcribed as Flora:

John Flora 47, rug weaver, b. Forres
Eliza Flora 42, merchant, b. Duffus
John Flora 21, tailor, b. Ray, Caithness
James Flora 16. lax Dresser, b. Forres, Morayshire
William Flora 12, Gardner (app), b. Forres, Morayshire 
Jessie E M Flora 13, wool spinner, b. Forres, Morayshire
Mary Ann Flora 3, b Old Machar, Aberdeen
Charles S Flora 1, b Old Machar, Aberdeen 

Address: 41 Spittal, Old Marchar

With that birth for son John in Caithness, the marriage in Golspie could well be the correct one.

Found them also under Flora for 1841 - not sure if first three entries are another household that has been transcribed together with the Sloras (freecen have it separate). All the Sloras born outside the county:

Willm Deans 65, weaver
Mary Deans 60
Alexr Ingram 14
John Flora 35, wood sawyer
Eliza Flora 30
John Flora 12
James Flora 7
Mary Flora 5
Willm Flora 2

Address: Spittal, Old Marchar

Did you find Elizabeth Murray/Slora's death cert? Was there nothing there on her parents?

Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........

Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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