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Topic: March/Doddington PR Look up - Help Please (Read 318 times)
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annelie1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 11
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Looking for the baptisms of Watts or Leonard children between 1839-1846.
Baptism for William Watts - born abt 1840 (aged 9 mths in 1841 Census) Mothers name is Mary Ann Watts
Baptim for Bridget Watts - born abt 1844 - Mother Mary Ann Watts
Baptim for Mary Watts - born abt 1846 - Mother Mary Ann Watts
Children likely to be registered under the surname WATTS, there is a connection to Patrick Leonard but he may not be the biological father just step father.
Marriage for Mary Ann Watts. Unsure if Mary Ann was married to a man with the surname of Watts therefore having a different maiden name or if she had the above children illegitimately. If she was married to Watts he was not recorded with her in 1841 and she was in the North Witchford Union, with her son. Naturally it is possible for him to have been elsewhere, I have no names to go on except the possibility his name was William - if the child was named after the father? Mountains of unanswered questions as always!
Mary Ann is recorded as married to Patrick Leonard by 1851, if this is the case they would have married in March/Doddington 1841-1851. I have not been able to find any records confirming they married.
There are other children born to the couple in the 1840's and 1850's that will be registered under Leonard.
If you could help any of the above records that would be great. I have not been able to find anything definite in the regular indexes and searches.
Thanks
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jjy1960s
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Annelie1980
Mary Ann Watts and Patrick Leonard were my great-great-great grandparents, so that makes you and I cousins. I'm related to Thomas Leonard Watts, Bridget's younger brother. I subscribe to genes reunited.co.uk. so if you are able to contact me there I will let you access the tree. Good to hear from you.
Janet
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annelie1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 11
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
thanks for your reply. what more do you know of Mary and Patrick. I am trying to piece together how they met, when they married. I had always suspected a connection between the Watts and Leonard family but couldnt confirm.Bridget's daughter Mary Ann married a Henry Wolfenden. His little pocket sized notebook survives today and in it has the name James Leonard. I had always suspected him to be Bridget's brother. My grandma had always told my mum that her grandmother was a Leonard and I couldn't work out how she had come up with that. I think she was meaning her great grandmother and then that would make sense. Funny how things get twisted and mixed up! Not always easy for someone in our shoes to try to unravel! Do you know much about the Watt's side of the family? I realise that Bridget and her older brother William would have been born out of wedlock or in a previous marriage. Just noticing your relations name (Thomas Leonard Watts) ...... did Mary and Patrick actually legally marry? Keen to find out more!
Thanks
annelie
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jjy1960s
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi!
They met in March Cambs., exactly when we don't know. But by the census of 1851 Mary Ann was out of the poorhouse (North Witchford) where she had her son William (my uncle Keith in New Zealand discovered that his middle name was Eglinton -- could it have been the name of one of her parents, or possibly the surname of the father). We know her christening date - possibly her own parents' names were on the record somewhere and we might be able to trace further back.
I haven't yet found a record of Patrick Leonard from the 1940s, but somehow he ended up in Cambs. and met Mary Ann Watts who was in a poorhouse situation. The two shared an abode at High Dyke, March in 1851 but as you know Bridget was born in March -- their daughter -- in 1844, Mary was born in 1845, Ann in October 1846 [must have died in March], another Ann was born in January 1850, Margaret was born in December 1851, Annie July 1853. My predecessor Thomas Leonard Watts (he only put Thomas Watts on his marriage certificate) was born in March 1855 so they moved north sometime afterwards. Numerous people from March lived in Crawshawbooth. They were probably recruited down in March, possibly in and around the poorhouse, by mill operators from up north.
Elizabeth was born in March 1857, James in1858 in March, but Mary Ann was born in 1861 in Crawshawbooth.
Mary Ann Watts' son William Eglinton Watts must have got on with Patrick Leonard since, as I realized from your info. yesterday, Patrick stayed with him in the Bolton area where they moved to from Rawtenstall and was there during the 1871 census. There had been a major split in the family at that time. The understanding is it happened after Martha, the youngest child, died at just a few months old. They had already lost at least one daughter. Mary Ann Watts (also known as Polly) -- died Dec 31, 1878, and at least one son and several grandchildren are buried at All Saints Parish Church, Goodshaw, Crawshawbooth.
Some of the children took only one surname -- Leonard -- a couple took only one official surname -- Watts -- a number were happy to go with Leonard Watts. But the fact the parents weren't married caused a lot of contention in the family.
Would be glad to share more. I have a book compiled by my uncle Keith -- I can photocopy it and send you some pictures if you let me know how.
Best wishes!
Janet
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annelie1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 11
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Janet,
This is great - so much that I had guessed you have confirmed! I had found the William Eglinton name and also wondered after the connection. I can have a look further into that and see if I can find any links. Are you an Ancestry member? How do you know for certain Patrick is Bridget's father? I have been unable to find a birth record for her..... did you manage to find one? So many questions..... stand by I will send them in small amounts!
Thanks
Annelie
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annelie1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 11
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Janet
Have a look at this for a possible for Patrick Leonard in 1841 Census.
Patrick Lennard HO 107/81/8 Page 15
he is listed as living in Bedlam House, Doddington Cambs, is an Ag Lab and not born in the county. As you will have probably noticed with the 1841 census, the person recording the info quite often rounded the ages to look neater ie to 15 or 20 rather than say 16 or 18. It looks like a good match.
if you dont have access to this census, send me your email and I can send you over a copy..
annelie
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bedfordshire boy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4748
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It wasn't that ages were rounded in 1841 to make them look neater. The instruction to enumerators was for all ages over 15 to be rounded down to the nearest 5 below. So a person of 16 or 18 should always be recorded as 15; someone of 54 as 50.
But sometimes an enumerator helpfully forgot and recorded actual ages. But problems arrive when he put some actual ages in, but also rounded some down when he remembered!
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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jjy1960s
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Annelie;
While I haven't seen a birth certificate for Bridget, I'm quite sure she was Patrick Leonard's daughter just from family lore, just as we know that William Watts wasn't his biological son. It's interesting you say Bridget was said to have described herself as "a Leonard" -- I know what your great-grandma was getting at. It means that in the family unrest over which name they took, she never wanted to disassociate herself from his name since she probably already used it at school when she was younger and was proud of her dad.
The story in our family is that my 2nd great-grandfather Thomas asked his mother when he was about to get married what surname should go on his marriage certificate and she said "Watts -- you're a Watts". He put the name Watts on his marriage certificate. But he, his children and of the next generation my grandfather and his sisters all bore the name Leonard Watts.
Thomas Watts was said to have been a "stickler for the truth" (Bessie Watts his granddaughter from Rawtenstall used to say that) so he had a problem with using the name of his dad since officially it wasn't his own.
My granddad Harry seemed to use Leonard as a middle name not a surname though and so my mum Jean and her brother Keith were just Watts.
Bye for now,
Janet
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