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Topic: Cameron/Levy/Marks - birth Query (Read 3491 times)
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lozzab
RootsChat Member
Posts: 189
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Hi all,
My grandfather (I knew him as Jack Ernest Cameron) was born in 1905 in Wellington, New Zealand.
He had a twin sister Iris Daphne (b:1905),
sister Phyliis Raoni b:1907)
brother Stewart Couldrey (b: 1909)
I have his parents as Adela LEVY and Ernest (poss Hugh) CAMERON.
Ernest, Adela and the 4 kids emigrated to Australia (prob. NSW) in about 1909/1910.
Adela LEVY (b:1976 - NZ) was child of Leah MARKS and Henry LEVY(married NZ in 1868)
Problems- there was a family rumour that Adela and Ernest were never married. I have just checked the new NZ BMD Indexes on line and this appears to be the case.
All four of the children are registered under the mother's maiden name of LEVY. The mother's name has been put down as Amelia (her middle name according to her birth index) My grandfathers name has been registered as Jack Ernest Cameron LEVY - so it appears that Ernest was the father. Why would they have not got married?? Her family was Jewish - would this have been the reason??
It appears she and the children have just adopted the Cameron name when they have arrived in Australia.
I have not been able to trace Ernest (Hugh) Cameron back any further. He died in Frankston, Victori in 1958 at aged 82yrs (so born about 1876) and the certificate states he was born NZ and was married to Adela since 1902. His parents were put down as unknown.
Is anyone out there connected to this family?
How do I get past Ernest Cameron?
How do I find the ship passenger details of the family coming to Australia?
Would appreciate any help/suggestions!!!!
thanks,
Loz
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3260
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Loz
Hmmm ... yes, you do perhaps have a wee problem with finding further information for Ernest (Hugh) CAMERON. 
Looking at the NZ Historical birth index (online), I couldn't really see "an Ernest" who was a "possible" ... (there are however a number of "Hugh CAMERON" births).
But I think your very best chance of tracing Ernest's ancestors, may well come from the "Couldrey" name, he gave to his younger son ? (I'll see what I can find for this surname).
As you've discovered, there was no marriage registered in NZ for Adela and Ernest. Have you checked Australian indexes though, to see if they perhaps wed at a later date ?
(I would agree that Adela's Jewish faith would have played a part in preventing the couple from being married).
Do you have any other information (from Australian sources) that show that Ernest was (a) commonly known as "Hugh" ? ... or (b) does the name "Hugh" appear on Ernest's death certificate ?
Lu
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3260
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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--- I did mean to ask also, if there were further children born to the couple in Australia ? (If so, might there be any further "clues" amongst the christian names, they were given)?
Lu
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3260
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Loz
I've added your earlier search here, because it seems there was some work done previously in trying to trace "Ernest (Hugh / Howard) CAMERON" ... and also some info relating to Adela, which may be beneficial to others assisting in this current search.
* Do you have the birth record (printout) for your grandfather (Jack - b. 1905) ? (It would be interesting to know exactly where (at what address), the birth of Jack and his twin sibling, took place).
I see that Adela was at Porewa Rangitikei school (aged 11 - 1887) but her father (guardian) was still resident in Welllington ? I'm wondering if Adela returned to Wellington after her schooling ? (This could help in possibly tracing where Ernest CAMERON came from or where he lived prior to 1905).
Lu
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lozzab
RootsChat Member
Posts: 189
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Hi Lucy - thanks for your interest.
I have checked both NSW and Vic indexes and there is no marriage for Adela and Ernest in australia. I know they settled in Nsw and then moved to Victoria 1930/31. I have seen a passenger list that might be Adela and the children arriving in Melbourne June 1909 on "Moana" - a Mrs Cameron 36yrs with 3 children and one infant - which fits. Wondering if they continued straight up to NSW and if Ernest came out earlier to set up - as my other g-grandfather did with his family??
Ernest's middle is "Hugh" on his wife's death cert (she died a number of years before him - and I figure this shoudl be correct as he would have provided the info for the death certificate??)
His middle name is "Howard" on his death cert. and is "Hyde" on his daughter's (Iris) marriage certificate.
Do you think my g-grandmother Adela was away at boarding school?? Is it far from Wellington?
I have ordered my grandfather's birth certificate - I am hoping it turns up this week and has some useful info on it. On the index it says the father is N/R - I hope that this is not the case.
Thanks again,
Loz
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3260
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Loz
Yes, the info from the passenger list ("Moana - 1909), sounds like an excellent match.
I would be inclined to go with "Hugh" as being Ernest's second christian name, too.
I'm not sure about the "Porewa" school - nor whether Adela may have been a boarder, there ? (Perhaps someone else on this board can give further info ... and also whether any of Adela's siblings, were also enrolled there ?).
(The Rangitikei area includes places like Palmerston North).
Edit: See further info in a following post.
CAMERON, I'm sure you'll appreciate, can be bothersome to search (apologies to all Cameron's ) ... when we just have the two christian names for your Ernest. Really, he could "belong" to any number of parents who are listed on the historical birth index. My thinking is to narrow down the search ... perhaps find Ernest on an electoral roll and where he might be living. (Likewise with Adela ... she also may appear on an e/roll) ? If she was estranged from her parents (as seems likely), was she living with Ernest's family?
Hopefully the birth record for Jack (LEVY), will give some clues - (sorry, I don't think Ernest will have his name recorded on that as father - I may be wrong?). He might though be recorded as the informant to the birth(s) of Jack and his sister.
(Back to my earlier question) ... were there any other children born to Adela and Ernest in Australia ?
Lu
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« Last Edit: Tuesday 17 March 09 12:07 UTC (UK) by Lucy2 »
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lozzab
RootsChat Member
Posts: 189
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Lu,
No - no more children born in Australia.
How do I check Electoral Rolls in New Zealand? Are they on-line?
thanks so much for your help
Loz
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3260
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Loz
Oh ... OK ... no more children (was half hoping there might have been, as OZ certificates give much better info than our NZ ones). 
Sorry, no e/rolls available online (the 1893 one which for the first time, includes women, is available on CD ... but your people Adela and Ernest, won't be included as they were under 21 - the voting age). I can check (later) rolls at library for you.
[Henry LEVY (father of Adela) ... was he the tailor ... or in the "rag" trade" (clothing business) ? I'm just going to check where he was also at the time Adela was having her babies ].
Lu
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lozzab
RootsChat Member
Posts: 189
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I;m not sure ofHenry's trade. I know he was born in London about 1837 to Lipman Levy and Hannah Jones (Jonas). I believe that Leah Marks and her family lived nearby. It appears that Henry and Leah have emigrated to New Zealand (don't know if together or not) and they got married 25th March, 1868 in Hokitika New Zealand (I found their marriage Papers Past). Just last week I discovered Adela's siblings from the NZ bmd (gosh - I'm glad they finally went on line!!)
Henry and Leah had 5 children in all;-
Adela Amellia (b:1876)
Herbert Frederick (b:1879)
May Lilian (b:1880)
Marcus Alfred (b:1881) and
Ethel Evelyn (b:1885)
Stewart's name is on his parents death certificates and is also spelt that way on the NZ birth index. My mother tells me that he was a bit odd and disappeared and no-one knew where he was or what happened to him. I've been unable to find Stewart's death.
I really appreciate your help!
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« Last Edit: Saturday 25 April 09 09:50 UTC (UK) by lozzab »
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Rogers, Mason, Hawkes, Baldwin, Taboudeux, Lee, Steeden, Wilson, Armstrong, Battley, Johnstone, Dailey, Birmingham, Lancaster,Field, Rainford, Hill, Adams, Cassidy.
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3260
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Edit : from reply # 6
Hi Loz
I came across this map, which better demonstrates the Rangitikei area and shows its relationship to Wellington.
http://www.rangitikei.govt.nz/default.asp?menu=da
Lu
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3260
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again
I've viewed a few Electoral rolls (and directories) essentially looking for Ernest Hugh CAMERON (and possibly Adela) in the Wellington area prior to them leaving for AUS.
Hmm ... I found two Ernest's in Wellington, but unfortunately, later rolls give these chaps, second christian names ... so can rule them out.
I also checked on LEVY ... there were TWO "Henry's" in Wellington from 1881, both were storekeepers. (One though seemed to have a link with Benjamin LEVY (probably Henry was his son - there is a newspaper article about their fancy goods shop, being robbed). The other which I think is "your Henry", is shown as a storekeeper in Cuba Street, Wellington. (Henry LEVY d. 1918 is listed on Cemetery record at Karori as " a Grocer").
Leah LEVY doesn't appear on the 1893 roll of First Women Voters and the first time I find her with Henry, is in 1911 when they are at 25 Walter Street in Wellington. (Henry is described as a "commission agent".)
I'll do some more checking for CAMERON though.
-----------------------------
Question: Loz, do you know what Ernest's occupation was ?
Lu
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lozzab
RootsChat Member
Posts: 189
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HI Lu,
I am pretty sure that the Henry that died in 1918 is mine. I'll have to get his death certificate.
Ernest Cameron was listed as a Real Estate Agent on my grandfather's (Jack Ernest) marriage certificate in Sydney in 1929 but again I don't know anything about his life in NZ. He's proving to be an elusive bugger!!It's frustrating - I have a photo of him (prob. aged in his 50-60's). I can see what he looks like but can't find anything about him!
Thanks again for your help, 
Loz
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Rogers, Mason, Hawkes, Baldwin, Taboudeux, Lee, Steeden, Wilson, Armstrong, Battley, Johnstone, Dailey, Birmingham, Lancaster,Field, Rainford, Hill, Adams, Cassidy.
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Eyesee
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2687
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There are a lot of Camerons in the Rangitikei area. They all originated from about five families that came out to Wellington in 1840 or thereabouts. Can't see an Ernest apart from one, but he is still in NZ in a WW1 uniform. There are a number of Hughs though.
Same Camerons that Fiona belongs to in the other post. Some of the different lines were related to each other, as well as some of the other families that came on the Blenheim in 1840, which most of them did. They were all from the Fort William area in Scotland.
Porewa is not really a town or village, but just an area nowadays. There was something there back when the place was first settled. There is still a school there though I think, and a church and graveyard.
So can't be sure if Ernest Hugh/Howard is one of the Rangitikei ones or not. Some of them did stay in Wellington, around Kaiwharawhara.
Ian C
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CLAPHAM, Leeds and London
TOMLIENS, Herefordshire and Southwark
CLARKE, Sussex, Cambridge and Shropshire
FAULCONER, MANNINGTON, RICHARDSON, TICEHURST, BROOK, ELPHICK, All Sussex
UDY, CLEMENCE/CLEMENTS,WHITE, COITE, COBELDICK, Cornwall
BROOKING, Devon, India
FERNANDEZ, London, Somerset, Herefordshire
RUSH, CARTER, GIBSON, REMINGTON, London and Surrey
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