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Topic: Cameron/Levy/Marks - birth Query (Read 3582 times)
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3266
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Loz 
What a pity there was no further info available from the cemetery ... still nice though, that you got to visit and see their final resting place.
I've now satisfied myself, that "your particular Ernest CAMERON" was not known by that name, whilst living in Wellington. I've re-checked all the rolls and directories.
However, there is somebody else I've gathered a lot of info for, whom I think pretty much fits the bill. (I just don't want to post the name on here yet, in case I have it wrong.  )
There were no entries on E/rolls at all for Adela.
What is needed now, is any further info Phyllis's daughter might be able to supply from BDM certs (especially concerning this "Heide" - or similar name). If perhaps there is nothing on those, then I think getting the birth record for the last-born, Stewart, would be a good idea. (Sorry, I know it's more $$ - but knowing where he was born (suburb/ street) and the name of the informant, will help solve this puzzle).
All the children were Wellington-born (except that Phyllis's birth was registerd at Petone - which is on the northern reaches of Wellington harbour, but is essentially still Wellington.)
Adela's parents, Henry and Leah (nee Marks) LEVY, were married in Hokitika (which is on the south Island??) but were buried at Karori Cemetery, which suggests they moved to Wellington at some stage.
Yes, looks like they arrived in Wellington before Adela's birth in 1876 ? As they married in 1868, I think there are possibly some older children ? But for these earlier births, the names of parents are not shown on the online index.  If you have another look at "PapersPast" (search on "West Coast Times"), you'll see a birth of a daughter to a Mrs Henry LEVY. (There were two Henry LEVY's in Hokitika at the time - the other a "Henry Z. LEVY" ) but I think the birth before 1876, was probably a child of Henry and Leah ? When you get their death certs. you may be able to tell from that, provided the child was still living when the parents died.
Lu
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lozzab
RootsChat Member
Posts: 189
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Ok - with the wonderful help from Lu - it is now thought that Ernest Cameron was NOT his real name and he was actually Edgar HYDE (b: 1876 Auckland) and changed his name when he stepped on the boat to australia.
I got Edgar's first marriage certificate (before he set up with my g-grandmother) and his parents are Charles HYDE and Eliza DORKES (? - looks like). Edgar married a Isabel EARLEY, father Robert EARLEY and mother Esther MOYLE)
I can't find a marriage in New Zealand for Charles and Eliza and have no idea what country they may have come from. Does anyone have any ideas?
I have got the birth certificates now for Jack Ernest Cameron LEVY (an E. HEIDE was the informant) and the younger brother Stewart Couldrey LEVY (Informant was a "Te Koroneko)
.....Lu - over to you
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3266
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again Loz
As there's been that very long wait from BDM (NZ) for Stewart's birth record (which ultimately didn't provide the extra clue, hoped for), and a good deal of "nutting this out" has been done via PM in the meantime, I'll now attempt to summarise where we are "at". 
Summary
Death Certificate - Ernest CAMERON - born New Zealand - died Victoria, Australia, 1858 - 82 years - (bc 1876 ) :
Wife: Adela CAMERON (nee LEVY)
Married: 1902 Wellington (No NZ marriage found.)
Children: Jack Ernest Cameron and Iris Daphne Vogel (b. 1905), Phyllis Raoni (b. 1906) and Stewart Couldrey (b. 1908).
All registered at Wellington NZ under the surname of LEVY - Mother shown as "Amelia LEVY" - father's name not recorded. * "Amelia LEVY" is known to be Adela Amelia LEVY born 1876 at Wellington.)
Ernest CAMERON - occcupation:
(Land Agent - as per his son Jack's marriage cert. 1929)
* 1909 - A "Mrs CAMERON and 3 children, plus an infant" found on passenger list - NZ to Victoria - "Moana" - June 1909, are a good match for Adela and her children.
* An extensive search had been made for an "Ernest CAMERON" - born in NZ - and living in Wellington at the time his children are born there. (Nothing found).
* All persons named "Ernest CAMERON" who feature on directories/electoral rolls in Wellington between 1897 and 1922, have been accounted for, and none are "Ernest CAMERON", the subject of this search.
Ernest CAMERON ... possibly "Ernest HEIDE" or "HYDE" ??
* Two clues, prompted this search. ( Post # 24 )
(1) Ernest CAMERON's daughter (Iris), states on her marriage certificate, that her father is "Ernest Hyde CAMERON".
(2) The birth cert. for Jack Ernest Cameron LEVY (1905) shows the informant to be, "E. HEIDE".
("HEIDE" used instead of "HYDE" ?? )
(Note: Also, Mother's name is stated as "Amelia" yet on NZ school records she appears to be "Adela" and on moving to Australia, uses that name.)
* Searches of Wellington directories and e/rolls (1897 - 1922), reveal an "Edgar HYDE" ... but nobody by the name of "Ernest HYDE" - nor was the name "HEIDE" found at all, in NZ).
continued ... next post
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3266
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Ernest CAMERON - "Edgar HYDE"
Summary .... continued
* There is a birth registered at Auckland - 1876 - for an Edgar HYDE. (Note: 1876 also matches the birth year given for Ernest CAMERON.)
* A marriage has been found for this Edgar HYDE (to Isabel EARLEY - 1899) and a son (Edgar Ivon) born in 1900.
Later edit: No "divorce" noted on the marriage cert which "Loz" now has.
* Isabel HYDE (the wife), disappears from electoral roll in Wellington in 1903.
* School records for their child (E. Ivon) have him in Taranaki in 1906 (Parent/guardian - Mrs Hyde) .. and in 1908 in Wellington (P/guardian - Edgar Hyde).
* Edgar HYDE appears in directories (NZPO, Stones and Wises) and electoral rolls at Wellington - listed as a "commission agent" (mainly) and in 1908 as a "land agent".
* Articles and advertisements (in the "Evening Post" at PapersPast) 1901 to 1908, give much info regarding his business dealings (as a commission and land agent).
------------------------------------
A further "clue" that Ernest CAMERON could be Edgar HYDE, is found in the (1985) will of Ernest CAMERON's daughter (Iris) where she makes a bequest to "Sue BOYD - my 3rd cousin". (Sue BOYD is known to have come from NZ).
In 1901, Edgar HYDE is in a business partnership with a "Charles BOYD" at Wellington.
This Charles BOYD appears to be the same person who married an Eliza Elizabeth HYDE (b. 1878 NZ) - though Eliza has different parents to Edgar HYDE - she may be his cousin ?
(Still searching for a "Sue BOYD" (Susan, Susannah etc. ) possibly born after 1909 ?) .
Lu
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KiwiBrennan
Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1735
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Hi Lu/Loz
The historical deaths show 3 Susan BOYD deaths, but they are all born pre1900, BUT there is a Catherine Susan Mary BOYD death in 1988 with a DoB of 1907 which may be worth following……
…and a Probate @ Ch’ch.
(over to “super sleuth” Lu)
Bren
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lozzab
RootsChat Member
Posts: 189
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Hi LU,
yesterday I trawled through Papers Past for the name "Couldrey" (Stewart's middle name)
There are several references to Messrs HYDE and COULDREY. They hosted several gatherings/games days for children in Wairoa between Christmas and New Years - for several years. It appears that Thomas HYDE and George COULDREY ran business (a store) together. In another newspaper article a Martha HYDE married a Henry POYNTER and the bridesmaids were 2 Misses HYDES and 2 Misses COULDREY. The article goes on to say the bridesmaids were "all of differnet families though related".
Another article says George COULDREY arrived NZ 1863 aboard the "Annie WILSON"
More evidence of the HYDEand COULDREY being connected and Ernest being Edgar HYDE??
Loz
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3266
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Bren
Many thanks. Will certainly check out each of those.
Lu
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3266
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Loz
Yes, those are the articles I found earlier and I'm pretty sure that Edgar HYDE is part of this particular HYDE/COULDREY clan who were in the Wairoa South/Clevedon area. (And that school record for Edgar shows that in the 1880's, he was at Clevedon school).
Thomas HYDE and George COULDREY also ran a boat/ferry service (before they had the store - or it may have been part of that business ?).
The Thomas HYDE referred to, is listed on the IGI with a (first wife) named Sarah COULDREY ?? (They had one son -William ? from memory - and he was not the father of Edgar - so there has to be some other Hyde/Couldrey connection?)
And somewhere I read also, that this Thomas had previously been in Adelaide, which makes me wonder if that might be where the COULDREY link comes from ?
Gawd ... sorting out these other "related" families though, is a bit complicated !
I think it might be a good idea, to get Edgar HYDE's 1876 birth cert. ? Especially to confirm his mother's maiden name.
I'll take another look at these articles.
Lu
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3266
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again Loz
A "wee" breakthrough !
Passenger List
"Excelsior" - London to Auckland - arrived 3 August 1870
HYDE - Charles and Eliza
... and children
Frederick / James / Thomas / Lizzie / Anne / Martha and Harriet.
(No ages listed for any of them). 
Lu
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« Last Edit: Monday 27 April 09 05:41 UTC (UK) by Lucy2 »
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3266
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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AND ....
This marriage ! FREE BMD (UK)
Marriage - Dec - 1857
Charles HYDE (also indexed as "HIDE")
Eliza DOR[HK] ES
Reg'd at. St. Neots. (Boundary of Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire & Huntingdonshire)
Lu
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3266
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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--- BIRTHS (reg'd at St. Neots)
Sept - 1858
HYDE - Frederick
March - 1860
HYDE - James
Dec - 1866
HYDE - Elizabeth (Lizzie ??)
Sept - 1868
HYDE - Annie (Anne ??)
(Will need to take a closer look for the other children).
Hmmm ... so (with the marriage above and these other children also reg'd. at "St. Neots" ), looking like very much like Edgar's family !!
(?? Seems like Edgar (1876) might have been the last of the line ?)
Lu
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lozzab
RootsChat Member
Posts: 189
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Wow guys,
thanks for all the info! I'd tried to look for Charles and Eliza's marriage on Free BMD but couldn't find It - thanks Lu! This is so exciting - I wish I didn't ahve to go to work this arvo!
Lu - do you think George was possible Sarah COULDREY'S brother? - and that's how the Couldrey line continued in NZ?
Loz
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Rogers, Mason, Hawkes, Baldwin, Taboudeux, Lee, Steeden, Wilson, Armstrong, Battley, Johnstone, Dailey, Birmingham, Lancaster,Field, Rainford, Hill, Adams, Cassidy.
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(Interesting that Vogeltown and Melrose are not same place!)