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Topic: Cameron/Levy/Marks - birth Query (Read 3567 times)
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lozzab
RootsChat Member
Posts: 189
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Hi Lu,
yes thanks - I had seen that article and photo - it helped confirmed some things.
What we do now know definately is that George Couldrey married Maria Hyde (Thomas and Charles Hyde's sister) and George was Edgar's (Ernest Cameron) Uncle - so that is where the Couldrey name comes in.
We thought that our Thomas Hyde married Sarah Couldrey (George Couldrey's sister) and that Sarah had one child and then died in 1871. (marriage on IGI- Clevedon, NZ))
NOW HERE'S A CURVE BALL! 
I was looking at the submitted trees on ancestry and there is a tree that states our Thomas Hyde (b: 1832 Buckden) married Mary Munro SUTHERLAND(b: @1842 nova scotia). (The Sutherland and Munro families turn up later intertwined with the Couldrey/Hyde's - Mary's niece Jane Alexandrina MUNRO marries George COULDREY jnr in 1907).
I have checked NZ BDM Index on-line and there is a marriage for Mary Sutherland 1870/3260 (husband's name not on index - early entry) and there is only one entry for a marriage for Thomas Hyde - 1870/1149.
THEN - there is a death for Mary HYDE [/b]1871/1222 (and corresponding newspaper article on Paper's Past - Daily Southern Cross 06/02/1871 - "[/i]On January 11th, at Wairoa, Auckland, Mary Sutherland, the beloved wife of Mr. Thomas Hyde. Aged 29 years."[i]
THERE - is also a death entry for Sarah Hyde[b] - 1871/1223 (and Daily Southern Cross 01/03/1871 - [/i]On Feb 27, Sarah, the beloved wife of Thomas Hyde."[i]
There are two entries for marriages for Thomas HYDE a couple of years later-:
- 1873/8944 Thomas Hyde marries Emily Beagley
- 1874/6088 Thomas Hyde marries Ellen Bluck
Then there are two deaths for Thomas HYDE in 1911 !!
- 1911/3798 - aged 78 yrs ( so born 1832/33 - so "OUR" Thomas)
- 1911/6498 - aged 69 years (born @1842)
How confusing !!??
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althea
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1842
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Re THOMAS HYDE MARRIAGES
Thomas Hyde 1854 to Sarah Dunne
Thomas Hyde 1870 Mary Sutherland
BYe
Althea
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Pascoe, Williams, Rowe, Matthews, Eddy: St Just-in-Penwith, St Keverne, Cornwall. Varcoe, Collicoat, Chapman: Roche area,Cornwall Cornes & Graham: Ireland/Shropshire, Barker, Palin: Shropshire McDougall, Morren: Ireland, Earl, Redgen, Steward: Suffolk Info: Thames, New Zealand Genealogy Resources: http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~althea/index.htmlNZSG Mem#18951 CFHS Mem#13723 Info: Breage, Germoe & Godolphin Cornwall : http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~althea/index.html |
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3265
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Loz
Thomas HYDE (b. 1832)
Marriage (1) Sarah COULDREY
The only "evidence" of this marriage having taken place, comes from the IGI (submitted) entry, which states >>
"1870 - Clevedon, Auckland New Zealand" :
(This marriage does NOT appear on the NZ index (nor on the NZSG Marriages CD).
I quess now, the question is ... did Thomas travel back to Australia at some time and marry Sarah there ? (We haven't yet found Sarah's arrival in NZ ... so did she arrive here as "Mrs. HYDE " ??) Edited : New information to hand.
Will just need to dig up my notes, but pretty sure that we have an age at death for Mrs Sarah HYDE (1871) which more or less confirms that she was probably the Sarah COULDREY
who was listed in the census return with brother George. ??
Edit: Have just found info which suggests that the Sarah HYDE who died 1871 was NOT the wife of the Thomas HYDE, born 1832 ! (Mmm ... I thought that Freeman's Bay address in the death notice, was a little bit suspect) !
... Will give you more on Thomas HYDE (b. 1832) shortly.
Lu
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« Last Edit: Monday 18 May 09 10:47 UTC (UK) by Lucy2 »
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3265
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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--- continued - Thomas HYDE (b. 1832)
Marriage (2)
Thomas HYDE - Ellen BLUCK - 1874
[I think we can be almost certain that this is the correct 2nd marriage for Thomas ... see following M/I ] :
Burial records - All Souls Church (Anglican) - Clevedon, Auckland
Row 3 - 24 HYDE (BLUCK family plot)
Very large concrete grave with large cross tombstone in centre and with six small crosses around it :
"Tom HYDE who died 20 May 1911 in his 79th year. Also Ellen HYDE, d/beloved wife of the above and d/o Timothy BLUCK, died 13 February 1917 aged 77 years."
[In same plot : Timothy BLUCK d. 24 August 1892 - 84 years.
Also Elizabeth d/beloved w/o of above - died 1 June 1896 aged 86 years. (Didn't note the others sharing this plot) ].
--------------------------------------------
Row 6 - 38
"William John HYDE b/l husband of Clarissa, passed away 10 August 1945 (74 years). AND - Clarissa, passed away 15 March 1954 (80 years) " :
Row 10 - 55
"Jessie Elizabeth PERRY nee HYDE, b/l w/o Arthur M. PERRY, born 8 November 1874, died 15 February 1931" :
-----------------------------------------------
Lu
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3265
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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NOW HERE'S A CURVE BALL! - there is a death for Mary HYDE [/b]1871/1222 (and corresponding newspaper article on Paper's Past - Daily Southern Cross 06/02/1871 - "[/i]On January 11th, at Wairoa, Auckland, Mary Sutherland, the beloved wife of Mr. Thomas Hyde. Aged 29 years."[i]
THERE - is also a death entry for Sarah Hyde[b] - 1871/1223 (and Daily Southern Cross 01/03/1871 - [/i]On Feb 27, Sarah, the beloved wife of Thomas Hyde."[i]
Well ... there you go Loz ... it always pays to check out further, those IGI submitted entries. 
I hadn't really looked further at this Sarah COULDREY (supposed wife of Thomas HYDE (1832) ... but it struck me as rather odd, that a death for "a Sarah HYDE" was at Freeman's Bay - and that wasn't the area where Thomas HYDE (1832) had lived.
SO ... 1st wife of Thomas HYDE (1832) has to be "Mary SUTHERLAND" (m. 1870 - died 1871). 
[The Sarah HYDE (w/o Thomas HYDE) who also died in 1871,
is buried at Symonds Street Cemetery, Auckland with her husband.
"Sarah HYDE - d. 27 February 1871 aged 57 (b.c. 1814)
Thomas Hyde - d. 31 December 1873 aged 58 (b.c. 1815) " ]
Lu
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3265
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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--- So, I'd say now, that Sarah COULDREY (sister of George), didn't ever in fact, come to New Zealand !
AND ... there are these two deaths registered at Abingdon. 
FREE BMD (UK)
DEATHS - JUNE - 1863
COULDREY - Sarah
-----------------------------------------
DEATHS - MARCH - 1868
COULDREY - Sarah - aged 68 years
------------------------------------------------
[The March death seems a good match for being the mother ?]
Can't see a marriage for Sarah (junior) ... she's not on 1881 census.
Can you see her in 1871 ??
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lozzab
RootsChat Member
Posts: 189
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Lu,
No -I can't see Sarah Couldrey on 1871 Census either. She was unmarried in 1861 census so would have been about 26 yrs if she died in 1863.
thanks for the cemetery info - that's great!
Loz
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3265
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again Loz
You know the "peculiar" thing about Ernest (Edgar) giving this COULDREY name to his son Stewart, is that "COULDREY" isn't a surname, from Edgar's, direct line !
[It's his father's, sister's, married name]. 
But perhaps he was very close to his Aunt Maria ... and COULDREY cuzzies ??
Obviously though, it's great that he did saddle young Stewart with the name ... might never have bothered exploring Edgar HYDE, otherwise ? 
Sarah COULDREY (junior) ... yes, I do think that's her in 1863.
[Wonder if there are any burial records for Abingdon, available ?]
Lu
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3265
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Loz
Just about to slope off to bed ... but before I do, here is the link to NZSG members, researching HYDE and connected names. [Perhaps you can contact them and compare notes ? Although, some have Sarah Couldrey listed as an interest - so likely their info has come from that same IGI source ?]
http://www.genealogy.org.nz/Search_31.aspx
Lu
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Eyesee
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2687
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Have the Abingdon PRs, will check tonight, unless someone beats me to it.
Ian C
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CLAPHAM, Leeds and London
TOMLIENS, Herefordshire and Southwark
CLARKE, Sussex, Cambridge and Shropshire
FAULCONER, MANNINGTON, RICHARDSON, TICEHURST, BROOK, ELPHICK, All Sussex
UDY, CLEMENCE/CLEMENTS,WHITE, COITE, COBELDICK, Cornwall
BROOKING, Devon, India
FERNANDEZ, London, Somerset, Herefordshire
RUSH, CARTER, GIBSON, REMINGTON, London and Surrey
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lozzab
RootsChat Member
Posts: 189
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Hi Lu,
It does sound (from the newspaper articles) that the Hydes and Couldreys were very close. Maybe Uncle George was a really good Uncle!!?? By the time Stewart was born - Edgar and Adela would have planned that they were bailing to Australia - maybe it was a deliberate clue??
It's still odd that Stewart would be know on official Australian records as Stanley Stewart (when my mother and her cousin knew him as Stewart Couldrey??
Just a thought - can we find out where Mary Sutherland Hyde (nee Munro) is buried? Maybe the inscription on her grave will tell us something?
Thanks Ian - that would great if you could check Abingdon PR's !!
thanks again to both of you.
Loz
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lozzab
RootsChat Member
Posts: 189
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Oops - thanks Lu - I got them around the wrong way - she was Mary Munro Sutherland on the ancestry site I saw.
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Eyesee
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2687
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Abingdon St Helen burials
1822 Dec 24, Mary, New Hospital, 86
1830 Mar 7, Robert, Vineyard, 66
1834 Apr 6, Elizabeth, High Street, 57
1836 Sep 3, Lydia, Boar St, 55
1837 Jun 15, Nanny, High Street, 84
1839 Apr 28, Thomas, Boar St (Vestry Clerk & Organist), 58
1841 Aug 15, Solomon, Christ's Hospital, 88
1842 Aug 5, Hannah, High St, 56
1845 Apr 20, William, Vineyard, 31
1846 Mar 11, Elizabeth, New Hospital, 82
1846 May 15, Adam, High St, 64
1846 Jul 11, William, Spring Rd, 61
1848 Sep 16, Elizabeth, Vineyard, 30
1853 Apr 21, William, High St (Drowned), 22
1862 Apr 10, Elizabeth, Broad St, 80
1867 Sep 15, Edmund Tompkins, Boar St, 59
1870 Feb 27, Joseph, Workhouse, 74
1874 Feb 8, Thomas, Ock St, 44
1878 Jan 19, Thomas, High St, 63
1886 Jan 18, William, East St Helen, 85
Abingdon St Nicholas
Nothing until
1863 May 16, Sarah, 24, Abbey, buried in Cemetery
1868 Jan 30, Sarah, 68, Thames St, buried in Cemetery
1870 Feb 28, George, 10wks, Abbey, buried in cemetery
Ian C
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CLAPHAM, Leeds and London
TOMLIENS, Herefordshire and Southwark
CLARKE, Sussex, Cambridge and Shropshire
FAULCONER, MANNINGTON, RICHARDSON, TICEHURST, BROOK, ELPHICK, All Sussex
UDY, CLEMENCE/CLEMENTS,WHITE, COITE, COBELDICK, Cornwall
BROOKING, Devon, India
FERNANDEZ, London, Somerset, Herefordshire
RUSH, CARTER, GIBSON, REMINGTON, London and Surrey
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Eyesee
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2687
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Sarah STIMPSON who married William COULDREY 1826, was born Radley according to census.
STIMSON
1797 Jan 22, James, s/o Wm & Agnes STIMSON
1798 Feb 4, Mary, d/o Wm & Agnes STIMSON
1800 Dec 7, Sarah, d/o Wm & Agnes STIMSON
1803 Jun 12, Eliz, d/o Wm & Agnes STIMSON
1805 Dec 8, Martha, d/o Wm & Agnes STIMSON
1808 Jul 24, Chas, s/o Wm & Agnes STIMSON, born 17 Jul
1811 Feb 3, George, s/o Wm & Agnes STIMSON, born 22 Dec (1810?)
1813 Oct 13, Hannah, d/o Wm & Agnes STIMSON, born 11 Oct, marr at Rad., lab
1815 Sep 24, Jane, d/o Wm & Agnes STIMPSON, born 22 Sep, lab
1815 Sep 24, Harriet, d/o Wm & Agnes STIMPSON, born 22 Sep, lab
1816 Oct 6, Esther, d/o Wm & Agnes STIMSON, born 6 Sep, marr at Rad., lab
1796 Aug 1
STIMSON Wm, b
JAMES Agnes, sp, botp
wits: John DAVIS, Rich EASON, banns
1851
Radley, Berkshire
William STIMSON, head mar 77, Farm labourer, born Berks, Ardington
Agnes STIMSON, wife mar 75, Laundress, born Berks, Chilton
Hannah STIMSON, dau unm 35, born Berks, Radley
Esther STIMSON, dau unm 32, born ditto
HO107/1688/337/6
Same place in 1841
Ian C
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CLAPHAM, Leeds and London
TOMLIENS, Herefordshire and Southwark
CLARKE, Sussex, Cambridge and Shropshire
FAULCONER, MANNINGTON, RICHARDSON, TICEHURST, BROOK, ELPHICK, All Sussex
UDY, CLEMENCE/CLEMENTS,WHITE, COITE, COBELDICK, Cornwall
BROOKING, Devon, India
FERNANDEZ, London, Somerset, Herefordshire
RUSH, CARTER, GIBSON, REMINGTON, London and Surrey
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