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Author
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Topic: Grandad Peter Swales (Read 988 times)
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burtie
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
Can someone please help me find my grandads birth, I can find his marriage and his death but not his birth.
His name is Peter Swales and he married Mary Ann Lynn in Kirkcaldy on the 31/12/1915, his parents names on the marriage cert were Jessie and James Swales. I have looked for his birth in Scotland and England but can find nothing. I have his date of birth from his death cert as 17/03/1894, He died on January 9th 1969
Hope someone can help me
kind regards
Burtie
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judi2632
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1091
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hi Bertie
Could this poss be mum in Scotland
Name: Jessie Swales
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relationship: Patient
Gender: Female
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 573/1
Registration district: Paisley
Civil Parish: Paisley
County: Renfrewshire
Address: Hawkhead, Paisley
Occupation: Hawker Formerly
EDa
Household schedule number: 1
Line: 28
Roll: CSSCT1901_210
sadly she is in Hospital .............: Hawhead Lunatic Asylum
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Gaskell, Ormskirk, Upholland, Pemberton, Lancashire
Screeton/Screaton, Nottingham
Lomax Suffolk, Lancashire
Ghilks, Mansfield
Jones, Wales
Banham, Norwich
Rothwell, Lancashire
Tinks, Suffolk
Shepherd, Lancashire
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burtie
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Judi,
I do think Jessie is my grandfathers mother, i will carry on digging to tray and find his birth cert to confirm this
Thank you for your help
Burtie
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9121
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Hi Burtie
On Peter's marriage certificate (or death cert.), was there a maiden name given for his mother Jessie. What was father's occupation on the certs? Did parents show as alive or deceased at the time of his marriage?
Sorry, questions...questions!
Monica 
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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burtie
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Monica,
Thank for trying to help, I don't mind the questions if it means i can find my grandads birth cert
No maiden name for Jessie only 2 letters ms
James ( Great-grandfather ) was a pedlar / hawker and both parents were deceased when my granddad got married
Burtie
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9121
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Hi Burtie
The letters MS after Jessie's name normally stand for Maiden Name, which by the sounds of it was left blank by Peter if he didn't know it or remember it.
As you have found, not much there are present to follow up on but I'll keep looking. Judi's find on the 1901 census is promising Might also be worthwhile investigating what records may remain from that period for the Hospital.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9121
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You could try contacting the Archivist at www.archives.gla.ac.uk/gghb/collects/hb24.html to see whether a search could be done for records on Jessie. This might be a way of finding out the information on the family and the circumstances that led Jessie to be admitted and what may have happened to the family.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9121
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I found some information which is probably connected...but I can't yet figure out 
There is a marriage in Kirkcaldy in 1901 for a James Swales and a Mary Ann Carnegie. James shows as a bachelor, 33 yrs old, a hawker by trade. Parents are Peter Swales, also a hawker and deceased, and mother is Ann Howe. Witnesses to the marriage were a John and Jane Swales.
There are too many ticks in the box to ignore  You have your Peter marrying in Kirkcaldy in 1915. This James marrying in 1901 has father showing Peter. James shows as bachelor, so either he married whilst Jessie was still alive and showing in Hawkhead in 1901 census, or James and Jessie were not married at the time of son's birth and the reason why you are not finding his birth may be that he was registered under her maiden name and not Swales. I also cannot find a death cert for Jessie (searching for a J* to pick up on variants) Swales so her death may also have been registered under a different surname not including Swales?
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9121
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Given how English the surname Swales is, over to England for this James' birth. Showing on IGI as actual extract, www.familysearch.org:
James Swales Birth: 22 DEC 1859/ Christening: 15 APR 1867 St Mary'S, Barnard Castle, Durham
Parents:Peter Swales and Ann Howe
Also, at the address on the marriage in Kirkcaldy, 128 Links Street is likely John and Jane who show as witnesses to the marriage:
John Campbell Swales 35, Butcher's Assistant, b. England
Jane Thomson Swales 25, b. Edinburgh
Sussie Swales 5, b. Dundee Angus
Alexander Swales 3, b. Dundee Angus
Christopher Young C Swales 1 week, b. Abbotshall, Fifeshire
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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burtie
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Monica,
Thank you so much for doing what you have
Can you tell me how i go about trying to find out information on the hospital
i am happy to do it myself but not sure where to start
Burtie
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9121
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The link that I gave you earlier will give you contact details for the Archivist. I would try that route, providing as much info as you have, and see what they are able to find. That 1901 census entry for a Jessie Swales that Judi found at the Hospital is your starting point.
I am struggling to find James Swales in 1901 in either Scotland or England at present which is a pity...I was hoping that finding him might lead us to young Peter.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9121
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Burtie
What was the groom's address for the 1915 marriage of Peter in Kirkcaldy?
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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burtie
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Monica,
I have on address only the name of the church that he married in,
St Mary's Chaple or Church Kirkcaldy
Burtie
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9121
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Is this from the marriage cert? Was there no address in Col.4 'Usual Address'?
Also, what were the witnesses names showing....sorry, I'm back to my questions again!
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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burtie
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Monica,
Like i said before i don't mind the questions, i am just greatfull for your help
As i am viewing the marriage cert on screen i did not look properly the Address is 11 Gaswynd Kirkcaldy
3 names as witnesses but i can only read 2 of them and then i could be wrong about the spelling, Georgina Lee / Patrick Byrne or Brinnie or Brinier
Burtie
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Pages: [1] 2
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