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Topic: Grandad Peter Swales (Read 989 times)
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9121
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I was looking for an easy confirmation that at least we had a verification on addresses with the James Swales we have found as potential father for your Peter. In 1908 James Swales and Wife Mary were at Steedman Square, Kirkcaldy when they reported the death of a daughter. Also, a potential brother to James Swales, also called Peter Swales, was living at Steedman Square when he reported his wife's death in 1915.
Genealogy is never easy...but that is part of the fun! We need the 1911 Scottish Census now not in 2 years time 
In your position, I would follow up on the lead for the Hawkhead Hospital and the potential entry for mother to Peter.
Let us know how you get on.
Monica 
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Piglet01
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 956
Captain Bob as a boy
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Hello
Apologies for gatecrashing the thread. This will be my only post. I went and dowloaded - for curiosity, a death entry for a Mary Ann Swales married to James Swales - pedlar. She died on 10th Aug 1911 aged 40, whilst a resident of a poorhouse in Kinghorn, - can't make out its name - usual residence Kircaldy - see attached. Witness was the Govenor - no indication that she was a widow. No entry in the parents column. I can send the entry if required.
Regards, Steve :O)
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McDonald originating in Aberlour. Smith (Aberdeenshire/Aberdeen), Esslemont, Christie, Robbie; Scott (in Aberdour). Crosbie and Willison. Borders: Lawrie, Thomson, Paxton, Peacock, Amos, Robson, Turner, Bertram, Watson
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burtie
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Steve,
I would be greatfull if you can send me that entry, my dad was a very private person so we did not get to know much about his family.
Not sure if my mind is playing tricks but i wounder if Jessie and Mary Ann are one of the same person
Thanks
Burtie
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9121
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Hi Burtie and Steve
I don't think from what we have seen that Mary Ann and Jessie were the same person which is a pity. Your grandfather Peter was born circa 1894 (what was his age at marriage which can sometimes be more reliable than death certs?). Mary Ann showed as aged 24 in 1901 when she married James Swales
Mary Ann's parent details are included in her 1901 marriage to James: Robert Carnegie, customs house office and Mary A???well.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9121
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James Swales died in 1914, also at the Poorhouse but this time at the Combination Poorhouse in Thornton in the Parish of Markinck. The Governor reported the death and his parents' details were known to him (as per the 1901 marriage), see www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Dysart/Dysart.shtml
In respect of the death details for Mary Ann, this relates to the Poorhouse are Kinghorn: www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Dysart/Dysart.shtml
You could try contacting the Fife Council Archives (link shows under 'Records' in the above two links) to see whether any poor relief records remain for James Swales and wife Mary Ann.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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burtie
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Monica,
Just sending you an update
I did what you said and applied for Jessie Swales records from Glasgow archives. when i got them they were very intresting reading, she was sent to the asylum as insane but from reading her notes i think she may of had some sort of brain tumor. ( She had pains in her head that made her scream and she died blind )
I do not think Jessie married James Swales as when she was admitted to the asylum her father said her name was Jessie Yuill Turnbull alias Swales
Jessie died in Feb 6th 1901 the same year you said James got married to Mary Ann Carnegie.
I have checked out Jessie's maiden name and still can't find any birth certificate for my granddad, all i can do is keep looking 
:)Thank you for your help, at least now i know a bit more
Burtie
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9121
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Hi Burtie
Thanks for the update Sounds and incredibly sad and painful end to Jessie's life 
Have you got the names of her parents? I wonder whether Peter may show with them or related family in the 1901 census perhaps.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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burtie
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Monica
Jessie's full name is Jessie Yuill Turnbull and her fathers name is Andrew Turnball and he lived at Commercial Road Glasgow when she was admitted. I do not have her mothers name
Kind regards
Burtie
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9121
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Hi Burtie
From the info you have, this looks to be Jessie's birth details from IGI www.familysearch.org:
JESSIE YUILL TURNBULL Birth on 25 SEP 1865 in Tradeston, Glasgow
Parents:ANDREW TURNBULL and MARGARET MC NEIL
Some siblings to Jessie, also on IGI, all births in Tradeston:
1. JOHN TURNBULL Birth: 04 AUG 1858
2. ANDREW TURNBULL Birth: 16 APR 1861
3. AGNES POTTER TURNBULL Birth: 18 DEC 1863
Parents' marriage also shows in Tradeston on 04 DEC 1857.
I'm a bit stuck at the moment to search for Peter on the census index. Ancestry's Scottish service has been down since Saturday I'm keeping an eye out for when it's back up and will search as soon as it is.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9121
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Sorry Burtie, even with the indexes back up and running, still can't see your Peter in 1901 with the Turnbull surname
In respect of Jessie, these look like some likely entries for her and family:
1871
Andrew Turnbull 37, Biscuit Van Driver, b. Paisley
Elizabeth Turnbull 37, wife b. Glasgow
John Turnbull 12, van boy b. Glasgow
Martha Brown 12, step daughter, b. Eastwood, Chorabeback (?spl)
Elisabeth Brown 10, step daughter, b. Eastwood, Chorabeback (?spl)
Andrew Turnbull 9, b. Glasgow
Jessie Y Turnbull 5, b. Glasgow
Mary Mck Turnbull 2, b. Glasgow
Address: 43 Clarence St Back Land, Tradeston Glasgow
1881:
Jessie Turnbull, 15, inmate, b. Glasgow Barony at the Glasgow School for Girls in 71 Duke Street, Glasgow
1891:
Jessie Y Turnbull, 23, general servant, b. Kinning Park, Renfrew (?) at 28 Herriet St, Tradeston Glasgow
1901 and no sign of young Peter with maternal grandfather, who is living with second wife Elizabeth in Dennistoun, Glasgow at 6 Warnock St
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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burtie
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Monica
Thank you very much for your help, it is greatly appreciated.
I will keep digging to try and find Peters birth certificate
I am not sure if my dad still has any brothers still alive in Scotland. I think he had a brother called Hugh who was a bit younger than him. Is there any way I can find out and could i find out an address if i had a name? If this is possible can you tell me how i would go about it
Kind regards
Burtie
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9121
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Hi Burtie
Gets much harder in the period you are looking at to search for people. However, it helps that the name SWALES, and any variants, is relatively uncommon here in Scotland.
You could try searching the birth index on Scotlands People for the surnname, although remember we have at least 2 other brothers for James Swales wandering around (John and Peter) who would have gone on to also have children and descendants.
Addresses are also difficult Normally for this period, if you have an address you can search the electoral rolls for an individual but you can't do this the other way round.
Boy, am I sounding negative on this bit
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9121
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This old post looks interesting http://genforum.genealogy.com/swales/messages/38.html
I wonder if the contact email is still active?
Monica
Added: Did your grandad Peter live on in Kirkcaldy after the 1915 marriage? There are only 8 births showing there between 1915-45, might give you some clues on possible names.
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9121
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Burtie, have you ever used Genes Reunited? It's particularly good for trying to trace people in the 20th Century.
I've had a look and I'm sure this line of Peter and Mary Ann's in showing there with births in Kirkcaldy. There seems to be a couple of people on GR who have put details on possible children. I searched for SWALES/FIFE and 16 entries show mostly in Kirkcaldy (including Grandad Peter!)
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Mary_Ann_Swales_poorhouse.tif