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Topic: McPHEE family in Kilmallie (Read 1726 times)
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9011
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Can't easily see Catherine as yet in 1861, closest two born c. 1846-7, too early for her. I'll keep looking.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9011
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Just realised there is a question mark over Catherine's birth year (age at death etc.)
Have you got John McPhee and wife Janet on the 1851 census? You say daughter Jane was staying with g/mother Stewart.
Added: This might be John and Janet in 1851 with some mis-transcription on the index I am looking at:
John M Phee 29, agr lab., b Appin
Janet M Phee 27, b Appin
Agnes M Phee 11 Months, b Appin - may the daughter Ann (variant of Agnes) who shows in later years
Address:42 xxxx, Carnock, Lismore and Appin
And no sign of Catherine in 1861 with Grandmother Jane Stewart. Jane Stewart is still at Kintallen in 1861:
Jane Stewart 64, agr lab., b.
Allan Stewart 34, son, shoemaker b. Appin
Elizabeth Stewart 7, granddaughter b. Greenock, Renfrewshire
John McLane 32, visitor
John Stewart 54, visitor
Address: Kintallen 11, Duror
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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fred2derf
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 319
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Monica,
 I should have said Catherine's older sister Jane, born 1848 Fort William.
Thanks for looking for Catherine. Yes I had that 1851 and yes Agnes becomes Ann in later ones, but the copy I have said 1 1/2 years not 11 mo.
Catherine is a real problem and I'm sorry but what I'll add now complicates it even more.
Her marriage to Alexander was her second. This is her first.
Marriage: 1877 to Walter Willoughby Douce; Bradford, York, age 24 spinster Bradford
- father George McPhae, farmer
Note that's probably where the 1853 comes from. And note her father's name.
Her marriage to Alexander in 1912:
Catherine Douce (M.S. McPHEE), widow age 61 Glasgow; parents John McPhee, crofter (dec) and Janet McPhee (M.S. Stewart) (dec).
Her death in 1926: Catherine Sands,
married to 1st Walter Dow, tailor and 2nd Alexander Sands, slater; age 77
- parents Donald McPhee, farmer (dec) and Janet McPhee (M.S. Stewart) (dec).
So we have three different names for her father. I'd say it was John. From her 2nd marriage and her death we get 1851 and 1849.
Regards,
Fred
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fred2derf
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 319
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Monica,
Alexander SANDS parents were John & Janet (Jessie) ANDERSON - and then John's parents James & Elizabeth and Janet's parents Alexander and Janet.
Alexander SANDS and spouse Catherine McDONALD named their children:
Euphemia McPhee
Jessie Anderson
Catherine Charlotte McDonald
Annie Duncan Gordon
Alexander Anderson
Jamesina McDonald
Helen McDonald
John
I don't know where the Gordon comes from.
Regards,
Fred
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fred2derf
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 319
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Monica,
This is looking very interesting. I have the family you found in 1851 now:
1841
Civil Parish: Inverness
Address: Abriachan
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation
MCDONALD Duncan M 54 Farmer
MCDONALD Janet M 50 [it should be F]
MCDONALD John F 28 Blacksmith
MCDONALD William M 25 Shoemaker
MCDONALD Hellen F 15
MCDONALD Duncan M 12
MCDONALD Isabel F 10
MCDONALD Margarat F 4
All born Inverness
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
The un-named male in IGI must be William, the one you said died in 1869.
James is not there so where is he in 1841? Oh, there are too many James McDONALD as servants or Ag Lab in different households where head of the house is not a McDONALD. 
Regards,
Fred
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sal60
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Fred,
I may have a connection to your Euphemia McPhee. My ancestor was Angus McPhee who arrived in Australia in 1853 with a wife, Christy and daughter Una. I think he is the Angus McPhee with parents Alexander and Catherine at Muirshealich in the 1851 census, possably a brother to Euphemia.
I think the Catherine you are looking for is with her grandmother Catherine in the 1861 census at Muirshealich:
Census Muirshearlich,1861. Inverness, Scotland
Catherine MacPhee Head Widow 80 Crofter Kilmalie
Ann Cameron Daughter 34 Grocer Kilmalie
Flora Cameron Grand 8S cholar Kilmalie
John Cameron Grand-son 10 Scholar Kilmalie
Catherine MacPhee Grand-daughter 15 Scholar Kilmalie
Her husband Alexander died in 1857 and Catherine(snr) died in 1866.
It's a shame no letters exist between Australia and Scotland as this might prove a connection between Angus and Euphemia and then back to Alexander and Catherine MacPhee. Like you i have conflicting evidence about the family connection.
Cheers
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fred2derf
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 319
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello sal60,
Thank you very much. This is interesting. I have the 1841 census for that family with Ann aged 14. So she marries a CAMERON.
I don't have the 1851 census for the family so could you please post it? Thanks.
Re grand-daughter Catharine, are you saying her father is the John aged 20 in that 1841 census? With parents Alexander and Catherine? If so it all fits perfectly but...
the death certificate of the John McPHEE who married Janet Stewart says:
"Death: 1879; Tomonie, Corpach, Kilmallie, Scotland; John McPhee, crofter,
married to Janet Stewart; died 18 Dec 1879; age 61; parents Alexander
McPhee, crofter, deceased and Mary McPhee M.S. Cameron, deceased; witness
Alexander McPhee, son (his mark)"
Alexander was born 8 Jan 1855 Kilmallie.
Catherine's birth is a mystery. Some say 23 Nov 1853 Duror but there seems to be no proof of that and age at 2nd marriage and age at death give 1851 and 1849. Age 15 in 1861 gives a birth date even earlier.
Regards,
Fred
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9011
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Hi Fred and sal60 (Welcome to RootsChat sal60  )
I spent a while last week searching for Catherine McPhee daughter of John and Janet (from her second marriage details in Scotland). I did see the young Catherine with a Kilmallie birth place living with grandmother Catherine in 1851 and 1861. My question mark over these entries is confirmation of who her father/mother was. Given grandmother was a Catherine, she could be the child of any of the Alexander and Catherine children and been named after grandmother.
I find it strange that the Catherine, daughter of John and Janet (Stewart) does not show with parents at any point: 1851 when the family seem separated and oldest (?) daughter is living with maternal Stewart grandmother and then in 1861 when the family has expanded and seem altogether but no sign of Catherine in the household.
The only other entry I found was in 1871, which a possible for Catherine:
Catherine McPhee, 22 (born c. 1849) in Ruro (could this be Druro?) Argyllshire. This Catherine is working in the KEMP household as a domestic servant at 2 Clifton St, Glasgow Barony.
From 1881-1901 she shows in England married to Walter Willoughby Douce, no living children showing on the census entries.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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fred2derf
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 319
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Monica,
Thank you very much for continuing to help with this puzzle. I have several thoughts. From a privately submitted entry Catherine was supposedly born on 23 Nov 1853 Kintallen, Duror, Argyll. Ages in census and age at marriage and age at death indicate an earlier birth.
Could you please post the 1851 census with Catherine and grandmother. Thanks.
A solution which requires that we ignore the mother's name on the death certificate for John MCPHEE (who married Janet STEWART) is that his parents are Alexander as stated and, YES, Catherine ie, he is the John aged 20 in the 1841 census at Murshirlich, Kilmallie. Then we have John and Effie as siblings and the two spouse of Alexander SANDS first cousins as required.
Regards,
Fred
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9011
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This is the 1851 census I referred to - everyone showing as born in Kilmallie except Donald McPhee where no place of birth shows:
Alexander McPhee 74, Farmer (of 3 Acres)
Catharine McPhee 72
Angus McPhee 27, agr. lab.
Catharine McPhee 5, granddaughter (In addition, and remember this is a transcript of the Scottish census, shows father: Angus (?)
Duncan Cameron 29, agr. lab.
Ann Cameron 24
John Cameron 2 Months
Donald McPhee 20, visitor
Address: Muirshcorlich, Kilmallie
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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fred2derf
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 319
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Monica,
Thank you very much. Oh  Angus - there is one aged 15 listed in that 1841 census, a sibling of John and Effy.
I'm back to the parents of John on his death certificate - Alexander McPHEE and Mary CAMERON.
His marriage certificate says 'Marriage: 21 Jul 1844; John McPhee labourer, Mursherlich and Janet, daughter of Allan Stewart, Appin'
So he was in Mursherlich when he married but that does not prove he was born there.
Is there in fact a John MCPHEE born 1817-1821 in Kilmallie to parents Alexander and Mary CAMERON? If this is him in 1851, then where is the John from the 1841 census (with Effy) in 1851? In other words, did John the brother of Effy marry Janet STEWART and if not, who did that John marry?
1851
42 Carnosh, Lismore & Appin, Argyll, Scotland
John McPhee head age 29 labourer born at Appin, Argyll &&
(Their daughter, Jane, is with Janette's mother)
Janett McPhee wife age 27 born at Appin, Argyll
Agnes McPhee daughter age 1 1/2 born at Appin, Argyll <---- 11 mo ?
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I have this one for him in 1861:
1861
Murshiarlich Farm, Kilmallie, Argyll, Scotland
John McPhee head age 40 labourer; born at Kilmallie, Argyll &&
Janet McPhee wife age 36 born at Appin
Jane McPhee daughter age 13 born at Fort William
Ann McPhee daughter age 11 scholar; born at Glencoe <----
Allan McPhee son age 9 born at Glencoe
Alexander McPhee son age 6 born at Kilmallie
Janet McPhee daughter age 4 born at Kilmallie
Donald McPhee son age 1 born at Kilmallie
Regards,
Fred
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sal60
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Fred and Monica,
I have the original 1851 cenus from Scotland People which normally shows relationship to the head of household. ie Catherine is Alexander McPhee's granddaughter. Ancestry has her as the daughter of Angus as they appear under each other but nowhere does it say daughter to Angus. However the enmumerator does show Ann as wife to Duncan Cameron, lodger, and not as son-in-law and daughter to the head of household.
In terms of young Catherine birth place I wonder if it is Jura, Argyll, thought the first letter does look like a "D". Perhaps a pronounciation thing?
When I first saw then entry I wondered if Catherine was an illegimate child of Ann Cameron(nee McPhee). Then the ancestry transcription got me thinking. There is a birth of a Catherine McPhee to an Angus and Catherine McPhee(nee McKay) at Kildalton, Argyll in 1846 and someone on the IGI has her death as 1934.
If this was "my" Angus I would need to look for the death of his first wife between 1846-1853. The marraige entry have reads for him reads:
OPR Vol. 100 1and 2
August - Angus Macphee, residing at Muirshieslaik, Parish of Kilmaillie and Kirsty MacTavish, residing at Gairlochy in this parish were proclaimed thrice on Sunday the 17th April last and married by the Rev. John Macintyre of Kilmonivaig at Blarous the 7th day of MAY 1851
This is only 6 weeks after the census so you can see why I favour the Angus McPhee son of Alexander and Catherine as my ancestor. However like you I have many pieces that don't quite add up.
Angus died on 10 August 1902 and his age is given as 85 years and 2 months ie a birth about May/June 1817. There seem to be two possibilities.
An entry for a Angus Mc Phee for July, 1817, Kilmonivaig, Argyll, son of Alexander. No mothers name given.
An Angus Mac Phee on 18.12.1819 at Kilmallie, Argyll, son of Alexander and Catharine
The first entry seems best for the details recorded on the death certificate and the second entry seems better for the marriage details.
If it's the second entry than I had Angus siblings as Donald born about 1807, Mary born 1810(the only baptisms for these are to a Alexander McPhee and Peggy Cameron!!) but on Donalds death certificate his parents are given as Alexander and Catherine McPhee. I think we have to realise that quite a large percentage of marriages and baptisms were never recorded particularly in the Highland area.
I think the other siblings are John 1817, Ann 1824 and Euphemia in 1828. Ann's death certificate gives her parents as Alexander and Catherine McPhee. I have never really chased the other two. Just to add to the confusion there is also a Peggy Mcphee born to Alexander and Kate McPhee at Kilmallie in 1822 and one born to Alexander and Catherine McPhee at the same place in 1824!!
Angus names his children Hannah, Catherine(seems a bit funny to leave a daughter behind and name another child Catherine), Alexander, John, Angus, Christina, Colin and Donald.
This doesn't really help Fred but it shows our possible connection.
Regards,
Sally
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fred2derf
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 319
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Sally,
I think Ann is Catherine's mother. Yes there is a Peggy and a 2nd Anne. The first Anne born 1822 must have died young. There seems to be some conflict with the dates for Peggy and Anne in the IGI entries.
I wish we knew who John b. 1817 married.
If that Effy married James McDonald then it's curious her death certificate gives her parents as "Donald McPhee, farmer, deceased and Jessie McPhee M.S. Cameron". If a different Effy married James then Effy daughter of Alexander & Catherine married who?
The other researchers have concentrated on Catherine and Effy. They have nothing apart from that 1841 census on Angus or the other children of Alexander and Catherine --> her mother is said to be a Flora Cameron.
John McPhee who married Janet Stewart named their youngest daughter Flora. However his death certificate lists his parents as "Alexander McPhee, crofter, deceased and Mary McPhee M.S. Cameron, deceased".
Regards,
Fred
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sal60
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Fred,
Don't know if this helps but Angus and Christy arrived in Arrived Moreton Bay, Queensland, Australia per 'S.S. Caroline' on 17.11.1853.
McPHEE Angus 30 Caroline 17 Nov 1853 IMM/112 24 M1696
McPHEE Christy 21 Caroline 17 Nov 1853 IMM/112 24 M1696
McPHEE Una 1 Caroline 17 Nov 1853 IMM/112 24 M1696
Also on board were this family:
McPHEE John 39 Caroline 17 Nov 1853 IMM/112 24 M1696
McPHEE Ann 35 Caroline 17 Nov 1853 IMM/112 24 M1696
McPHEE Catherine 1 Caroline 17 Nov 1853 IMM/112 24 M1696
McPHEE Isabel 6 Caroline 17 Nov 1853 IMM/112 24 M1696
McPHEE Isabella 15 Caroline 17 Nov 1853 IMM/112 24 M1696
McPHEE Jessie 12 Caroline 17 Nov 1853 IMM/112 24 M1696
McPHEE Malcolm 14 Caroline 17 Nov 1853 IMM/112 24 M1696
There is a marriage in 1835 of a John McPhee of Kilmaillie and Ann Cameron of Kilmaillie? The children of the above John and Ann are all baptised at Corpach, Kilmaillie, Arygll, Scotland.
This can't be the John you seek as in 1841 John McPhee is still listed with his parents at Muirshealich but it could be a cousin or near relative.
Regards,
Sally
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9011
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Hi Sally
This looks to be the John and Ann you mention, in the 1851 census - everyone showing as born in Kilmallie:
John McPhee 37, Crofter Of 2 Acres
Ann McPhee 33
Malcom McPhee 12
Janet McPhee 9
Dugald McPhee 7
Bell McPhee 4
Address:Cuil Or Caol, Kilmallie
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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