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Topic: Hayton in Hutton (or possibly Helton), Westmorland (Read 747 times)
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ChrisWest
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 59
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Again,
I've had a quick look on Ancestry (library edition) and found:
1841 - Stricklandgate, Kendal
Edward Fisher 60 Joiner & Carpenter Y
Elizabeth 70 Y
Elizabeth 20 Y
presumably to go with a marriage 13 Aug 1798 - Edward Fisher & Elizabeth Hayton
but I was unable to find the entries for 1851 & 1861.
Are these the right people? and was Elizabeth still living in Kendal in 1851 & 1861?
Chris
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Janeada
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 68
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
Thank you DickieDoodle you beat Kendal Archive to it by about 12 hours!! I'm not sure what to think Fellside is part of Kendal town not Hutton Roof, New Hutton or Old Hutton. Although there are plenty of Elizabeths in my Fisher family there is no-one named Miles and they don't use the name Newby (I think Miles Hayton's wife was probably Elizabeth Newby before she married) as a middle name as they do with other maiden names.
The Archive have also explained the situation regarding Kendal Parish and the surrounding township churches. I will quote the relevant part of their e-mail:
There were separate parish churches at New Hutton and Old Hutton. The parish records for New Hutton begin in 1741 and the registers for Old Hutton 1793. However these two churches were 'chapelries' of Kendal Holy Trinity and the register entries were copied into the Kendal Holy Trinity registers. Usually the KHT entries for a particular year would be listed first followed by those of all the individual chapelries. Therefore up until 1813 it is quite possible for a baptism to appear in the Kendal Holy Trinity register and in the register of the chapelry.
To answer your questions ChrisWest I have three census returns for Betty Fisher. The 1841 census which you found. I have the 1851 census as a paper copy from before I had a computer and in a transcription done by the Cumbria FHS. I tried and tried to find the census on Ancestry but failed each time. Then using the transcription I tried a name from the next page and it came up. When I clicked on the arrow at the top of the page to go back to the page I wanted it jumped two pages so I think they may have a page missing. I got Betty's place of birth from the 1851 census, they were living on Stricklandgate, Kendal. Edward her husband died in 1852. In 1861 I think Betty is living with her youngest daughter Elizabeth and family at Salthouse Marsh, Dalton. Elizabeth's husband appears to have been William Wainman. Ancestry have the names and places of birth in a bit of a muddle but the image is a poor one and difficult to read. Both Ancestry and FindMyPast have mistranscribed the married surname of Betty's daughter Elizabeth. Try looking for Betty Fisher aged 96 born Ashton, Westmorland. I know there's no such place but as I said it is a poor image I had to magnify it up a lot in order to even guess what it is. I think Betty had again given her birth place as Hutton.
I sent for a death certificate (1866) for Betty and a marriage certificate (1846) for her daughter Elizabeth which will probably arrive early next week.
Janeada
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« Last Edit: Thursday 20 August 09 10:50 UTC (UK) by Janeada »
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CLARKE in Furness, Lancashire, Cumberland & Isle of Man, PARK in Furness, Lancashire, CHARNOCK in Furness, Lancashire, ASHBURNER in Furness, Lancashire, FISHER in Westmorland & Lancashire (& Yorkshire), HIRD in Westmorland & Lancashire, JACKSON in Cumberland, SIM in Cumberland, WING in Lincolnshire, COOK in Nottinghamshire
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Janeada
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 68
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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The two certificates I sent for have now arrived
Elizabeth Fisher married William Wainman at the Register Office in Kendal on the 31st August 1845. William's father was John Wainman, Wool Comber and Elizabeth's father was Edward Fisher, Joiner. The witnesses were T. F. Spencer and Frances S. Wainman. Presumably Frances Wainman was a relative of the groom but I have no idea who the Spencer person might be.
Betty Fisher died on 8th March 1866 at Salthouse Marsh, Dalton aged 100 years. She was the Widow of Edward Fisher, Joiner, Master. Cause of death: Decay of Nature, Not Certified. Elizabeth Wainman (Betty's daughter although no relationship is given) registered the death on 24th March 1866.
I don't know that this gets me any further forward in my search for Betty's baptism except that it does seem that Betty and her close relatives are consistent with the age given on the censuses. I am very unsure about the 1771 baptism but don't really know what else I can do to try to find another one that would fit better with what I already know of Betty's life. Does anyone have any more comments?
Janeada
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CLARKE in Furness, Lancashire, Cumberland & Isle of Man, PARK in Furness, Lancashire, CHARNOCK in Furness, Lancashire, ASHBURNER in Furness, Lancashire, FISHER in Westmorland & Lancashire (& Yorkshire), HIRD in Westmorland & Lancashire, JACKSON in Cumberland, SIM in Cumberland, WING in Lincolnshire, COOK in Nottinghamshire
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ChrisWest
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 59
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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One possibility is that she may have been born and baptised elsewhere, but the family moved to Hutton when she was a child and this was where she grew up and though she was born.
Could it be possible that she was a widow when she married, and therefore Hayton is not her birth surname? Have you checked the original record?
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Janeada
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 68
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you ChrisWest. The possibility that Betty was born elsewhere then brought to Hutton as an infant had occurred to me but I was hoping it would not be the case. Where would I start searching?  At a later date there is usually some other bit of documentation to give a clue but in the mid 18th century virtually nothing but the parish registers.
The original record of the marriage was checked but not by me. I live a long way from Kendal so most of the research into the Fisher family had to be done through a third party. However this particular marriage entry was checked by the people at the Archive and I think they would have said if Betty was a widow. I'll have a look for the paper report I had just to double check.
Janeada.
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CLARKE in Furness, Lancashire, Cumberland & Isle of Man, PARK in Furness, Lancashire, CHARNOCK in Furness, Lancashire, ASHBURNER in Furness, Lancashire, FISHER in Westmorland & Lancashire (& Yorkshire), HIRD in Westmorland & Lancashire, JACKSON in Cumberland, SIM in Cumberland, WING in Lincolnshire, COOK in Nottinghamshire
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ChrisWest
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 59
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Previous messages have talked about Old Hutton, New Hutton & Hutton Roof.
Have you considered Priest Hutton?
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Janeada
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 68
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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ChrisWest,
Where is Priest Hutton?
I've never heard of it before and I can't find it in Parson & White.
However I did find some "Huttons" in Cumberland - Hutton-in-the-Forest and Hutton End where there was (? is) a country seat Hutton Hall. These are, according to the directory about 5 miles north-north-west of Penrith. Maybe Betty just got her counties in a muddle and didn't differentiate between Westmorland and Cumberland; doing her bit to prove that women are no good at geography 
Janeada
P.S. I've been looking at maps since I wrote this. Hutton End is indeed NNE of Penrith but there is also Hutton almost due east of Penrith very near to Penruddock and there is another Hutton Roof (Grid: 3734) which was in Cumberland but is now in Cumbria as well as the Hutton Roof near Kendal.
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« Last Edit: Thursday 27 August 09 04:10 UTC (UK) by Janeada »
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CLARKE in Furness, Lancashire, Cumberland & Isle of Man, PARK in Furness, Lancashire, CHARNOCK in Furness, Lancashire, ASHBURNER in Furness, Lancashire, FISHER in Westmorland & Lancashire (& Yorkshire), HIRD in Westmorland & Lancashire, JACKSON in Cumberland, SIM in Cumberland, WING in Lincolnshire, COOK in Nottinghamshire
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ChrisWest
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 59
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Priest Hutton, known as Hutton, is just south of Burton-in-Kendal, on the border of Westmorland and Lancashire. Nearest Parishes are Burton-in-Kendal and Warton, but still no IGI entries.
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Janeada
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 68
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you ChrisWest.
I've found Priest Hutton on the map. It is and always was, I think, in Lancashire which is why it doesn't feature in Parson & White and probably why the people at Kendal Archive didn't mention it either. The present church is shared between Priest Hutton and Borwick but it looks as though the whole area was once in the parish of Warton.
Janeada
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CLARKE in Furness, Lancashire, Cumberland & Isle of Man, PARK in Furness, Lancashire, CHARNOCK in Furness, Lancashire, ASHBURNER in Furness, Lancashire, FISHER in Westmorland & Lancashire (& Yorkshire), HIRD in Westmorland & Lancashire, JACKSON in Cumberland, SIM in Cumberland, WING in Lincolnshire, COOK in Nottinghamshire
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Janeada
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 68
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
As many of you will know FindMyPast have recently added Westmorland to their 1851 census collection. I tried looking up my Edward and Betty Fisher but could only get the transcription. The image appears to be having teething troubles and refused to download.
Betty Fisher was Betty Hayton before her marriage and FindMyPast have interpreted her birthplace as "Hetton" Westmorland. I don't think there is any such place but there is a Helton between Kendal and Penrith and the IGI has a baptism for Elizabeth Hayton at Askham (which will be the parish) 16 November 1775 the daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth. This would make her nearly ten years younger than she said she was. Does anyone have access to Askham Registers and would they be kind enough to do a quick look-up for me please?
Janeada
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CLARKE in Furness, Lancashire, Cumberland & Isle of Man, PARK in Furness, Lancashire, CHARNOCK in Furness, Lancashire, ASHBURNER in Furness, Lancashire, FISHER in Westmorland & Lancashire (& Yorkshire), HIRD in Westmorland & Lancashire, JACKSON in Cumberland, SIM in Cumberland, WING in Lincolnshire, COOK in Nottinghamshire
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Janeada
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 68
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Have found a copy (transcription) of Askham PR on-line. Unfortunately it wasn't very helpful giving no more information about the baptism of Elizabeth Hayton than the IGI entry.
The name Hayton is mentioned several times in the parish register:
John Hayton of Shap married Mary Holme o.t.P. 16 April 1702
William Hayton married Elizabeth Hoggart in 1775. I didn't see a baptism but their daughter Ann was buried in 1793 aged 14 years; her father was described as Wm Hayton of Hilton, Carpenter.
There was also a John Hayton, Weaver at Helton. He married Agnes Hill in 1797 and they had at least two children, Mary in 1797 and John in 1803. Agnes Hayton aged 34 and John Hayton aged 10 days were buried four days apart in April 1803.
John Hayton, widower, then married Ann Mounsey in July 1803.
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CLARKE in Furness, Lancashire, Cumberland & Isle of Man, PARK in Furness, Lancashire, CHARNOCK in Furness, Lancashire, ASHBURNER in Furness, Lancashire, FISHER in Westmorland & Lancashire (& Yorkshire), HIRD in Westmorland & Lancashire, JACKSON in Cumberland, SIM in Cumberland, WING in Lincolnshire, COOK in Nottinghamshire
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