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Topic: Memories of the lanes (Read 2378 times)
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emmsthheight
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1810
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Bob
Sorry, can't remember enough chemistry to deal with soot! I've a horrible feeling I did once!
Just thought I'd say, I've been sorting through papers to try and limit them - again!, and came across some sheets of baptisms - 1840's and early 1850's - and there are consecutive entries for Water Street and Water Lane, so the two names were both in use at the same time.
Best wishes
Emms
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morskaj
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 17
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi all, I will be going to the archives in Carlisle either Friday or Monday, I will see if there are any old maps in there with Water Lane on them. Anything else you want me to look for? Morskaj.
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emmsthheight
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1810
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Morskaj
Welcome to Rootschat!
Thank you for your kind offer. I thought I'd have been up long since, but I haven't.
I'll have to get up there, but if you do get, and do get chance to look, it would be really interesting to know what happens to these lanes around the station on the first mao after it opened.
I've got a copy of the early one before the station, but I think it might be early utilitoies 1850's and Ordnance Survey, 1860's.
Don't worry though. Make sure you get done what you need. Time goes so quickly.
I really hope you have a successful trip with or without Water Lane. The others were Water Street and Watergate Lane.
Enjoy Rootschat!
Best wishes
Emms
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morskaj
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 17
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again, In case you've never heard of it, there is a great site on Carlisle's history at www.cumberlandscarrow.com. There is a page of maps. There are two maps, the second is in 1790. If you look at the bottom right-hand corner you will see the very top of Botchergate and if you magnify the page using 'tools' there is a place behind that could be Water Gate Lane, but it seems to be spelt with 'y's in it, so possibly Water Gayt Layne(?). Have a look and see what you think. There are a few other excellent page of Carlisle's pubs and other history.
If you have 'google earth' you can have a look at Water Street now. There is a roundabout at one end and at the other you will see that it curves and follows the wall built for the railway station. If you then compare that with the map, you will see that the possible site for Water Gate Lane is directly on top of the railway station now.
There is a book called 'Carlisle in Camera', I can'tsee an ISBN number on it, but maybe you could get a copy from your library(?), on page 33 there is a photograph of Mill Street after the Viaduct was built. (Incidently, if you do go on google maps - follow Water Street along the railway station wall and go as far as you can to the end and this was the site of Mill Street. You will see a building with a light coloured 'loop' on the side, this is the city bath's and the loop is the water chute!).
The lanes area of Carlisle at that time was extensive. It stretched from Devonshire Street all the way down into Rickergate, (just outside the city wall's), and on the other side fron behind the town hall, again into Rickergate. There were 8 - 10 thousand people living in the lanes, some with one open end and some with two. There may have been one or maybe two 'privvies', (toilet's) per lane, with up to 200 user's of them. There was of course no water closet's then, they had cesspit's which were emptied by farmer's every so often. That along with the Stable's, piggeries and cow shed's made for very unsanitary conditions, leading to outbreaks of Typhoid and Dysentry a few times.
Again there is a book with photographs of the lanes, it is 'Images of England, Carlisle, from the Kendal collection', ISBN 0-7524-2486-6, the pictures are on page 75. Would you believe these houses were still occupied in 1964!?! One of the pictures is of inspectors visiting, to try to get the residents to agree to the compulsary purchase order! (Note the tin bath outside the door!!). Anyway it's now late so I'll stop now. (Once I get started....), See you later, Morskaj.
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emmsthheight
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1810
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Morskaj
What a star!
So we need to lookat some more ancient history, not just the bit we have missing in the 1800's!
Water Gayet Layne?!? Interesting! So it does go right through the station as I thought! But no evidence and you've provided it! I know the area and I'd looked behind the station and on Water St, but couldn't tie it in. I wonder if it went under where the underpass and old lifts are?
I've been at this quite a while, but never seen that site.
I've also got the Carlisle in Camera book, but I couldn't quite make the link! I've not come across the other book either.
Sounds fascinating!
We just had to wait for you to come along with all your extra input! Thank you for the extra background too. I knew the state of the Lanes was dire but not those details and the proiportions were even worse than I'd guessed.
You must have a really thorough knowledge of the local history.
Thank you for sharing!
I've not looked at your site yet. I will have a good play on that. It would be useful in the Cumberland resources if it's not there already.
Thank you again.
Best wishes
Emms
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morskaj
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 17
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi, I've found another site with photo's of the lanes of Rickergate on, it also shows you some history of the area. www.sosrickergate.com. The reason it's 'sos' is because they want to knock it down. I have a map (1821), showing Water Street and Water Gate Lane on it, but no Water Lane. Water Street as we know it now was not built at that time so they obviously relocated it after the railway station was built. I'll have to get hubby to scan it and then I'll send it on, See you soon, Morskaj.
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morskaj
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 17
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi all. I have tried to send the maps and they are too big a file to send, I will try to reduce the size tomorrow. Soz, Morskaj.
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emmsthheight
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1810
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
I tried the link with .co.uk instead of .com as Goeff suggested and it worked fine. Fascinating thank you, and certainly gave an interesting background to Water Gate Lane and what the area was like before the railway.
Thank you again morslaj and thank you Goeff for thehelp getting it to work.
Best wishes
Emms
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morskaj
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 17
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi, I have tried to send those maps but I keep getting the message that they are too big. Any ideas? By the way, the one with Water Street and Water Gate Lane on has been mentioned before. The Wood's map of 1821. If you look at Botchergate, which is called Botchard Gate at this time, Water Street is at the Court Square end at right angles to Botchergate. It goes across where the railway station is now and then curves down and changes into Water Gate Lane. What is called Water Street today is probably as near as dammit on the site of Water Gate Lane then.
Anyway, if anyone knows how to reduce the size of the maps let me know or if anyone wants them sent to their e-mail address, let me know. We could always be cheeky and use a secure site like genesreunited to swap e-mails!!! See you, Morskaj.
Oh by the way, that street that was mentioned, was it the B5299? is still John Street now, but in the past there were two sides to it, the side that was knocked down is now known as 'Paddy's market car park'.
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emmsthheight
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1810
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Morskaj
Were you trying to post these? You have too get the file small enough to satisfy the Rootschat rules and the dimensions to fit reasonably on the page.
If you email it to someone, I'm sure they'll put it up for you. I would, buit it's more satisfying to do it yourself. Feel free to ask. You can exchange emails off board via the personal messaging system. (pm). Button to the left of some one's post opens a message to them.
If you open it in imaging software, you can use "File", from the top tool bar, then "Save for web" from the drop down menu.
Okay the next bit, and then tell it where to save it. I use the Desktop temporarily for things like this.
If it is going to shoot off the page you can use "Edit", "Change Size" or somilAar, and pick a size that looks appropriate.
Then just what you sound as if you were doing. (Post Reply", then "Insert image" or similar.
Exact detail will vary depending on the program and the version.
By the way' yes, I've a copy of parts of Woods, it was the other map I hadn't seen.
Best wishes
Emms
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