Author
|
Topic: Sawley with Wilsthorpe C41,51,61 Saxton family (Read 2478 times)
|
|
|
|
|
Colin Y
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 293
Uncle Fred - England XI 1908 - POW Berlin 1914-19
|
Hi Colin, I had another for things this morning, but didn't make much progress to be honest. Looked for: Incoming and outgoing passengers. Army service records + pensions - just in case an older WHB was in amongst them (and maybe the newspaper reference isn't him). Nothing for either sets of records, I'm afraid. I simply cannot find the family we found in 1901! (which is why I wondered if they emigrated). I know you have doubts about whether this is them, but it seems to be the best option so far. The birth date for that WHB doesn't tally with what you have from the death record, I know! I did find few other WHBs from Staffs amongst army service and pension records, but nothing that listed the same next of kin. Pity we don't have his army service record, as that would have his attestation papers; stating where he enlisted, next of kin, etc. It would all help locate him in 1901. However, I understand that they are filed in Glasgow by date of birth, and we don't know that. I had a look to see if I could find the 1911 family, in Alton, Hants - the only Emily I could find was one born in 1890 - is that the one you found, Colin? I did find a birth registration for Emily Louise Pentland (Wolverhampton registration district) but that was for the Sep qtr of 1877  Which is the right date of birth?  As I said, have I got the wrong Emily in 1911? If it is 1877, that would make her the same age as the WHB we found on the 1891 census. I found the cgwc site and found the entry, Colin  Right, off to have a another search of the census - glutton for punishment  (However, I did find an elusive family for my friend today; after hours of searching - so there is always hope!) Bye for now - hope everyone is OK Paulene
'Morning Paulene,
Thanks for all of that.
I had also reached the Wiki site on S Staffs Volunteers but I didnt know about the Volunteers gazette... thank you!
It certainly seems as if the Lond Gaz and the Volunt Gaz items refer to the same man. This suggests (to me?) that he was born before we had thought - if he was made an Ensign on Nov 12th 1867 he will have been at least 18 ad thus born in, at the latest, 1849. Taking this further the difference between the relartionships between belonging to County Military Corps then and now is, in my belief and unless Scrim' says otherwise, huge. In so far as if he was a member of a Volunteer staffs Corps that is an almost certain indication that he was resident in Staffs. The 4th Staffs Rifle Volunteer Corps seems to have become pat of the 80th Foot which in turn became the 2nd South Staffs - again unless Scrim' says otherwise. Again your Wiki find also shows he might well have been out of the Country for the census in 1881 whe the relevant Corps/Batallion etc were seemingly in Egypt, in South Africa, etc. In those days - as with Capt W F P B's own birth as late as 1909 - soldiers took their wives with them to India or wherever - I have found this with my Hayes research too - he was a Surgeon Major and he took his wife to India and, when they were based in Malta, she lived there and his son was born and educated there too. Apols if I am teaching my Granny.... :-(
Looking for a 'back end to the Cols Dads life I am encouraged by the CWGC statement which would appear to suggest that at his date of death his parenets were both alive otherwise they would respectfully have said 'the late W H and Elisabeth Brookes' - surely? So it looks as if the oldest WHB was probably born before 1849 and was still alive in 1942 ? I doubt it - one at 98 perhaps but Husb & Wife??? I have asked St Peters Church if there are also graves to the parents there and equally to the Children (Capt W F P B & E M E his sister). This attachment to St Peters is possibly also worth thought. It does suggest a family link to the church becasue by 1942 the major cemetery for that side of Birmingham was well established and its only half a mile from there. I think - unless you say otherwise I will try for a copy of the Marriage and death certs for The Colonel. It would be worth the small investment for peace of mind!
Like you I wondered about emigration but I haven't seen any occurence of the name in any lists I tried.
I have a grab of the ALTON 1911 list with Emily Louise who did fib about her age - you are right again! The two children are with her but the then Sgt W H B was in barracks and sadly for soe reason the scan isnt available so we don't know where he said he was born. (I will email these bits to you sep.)
yes, thanks all is well - I have to go to the Dentists in 10 mins so i am replying now and will be back on line later. Yesterday with Rotary Lunch and Stanted to collect my OH from in the evening meant I was not online but the brain was still working!
OK? Hope al is well with you
Colin
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
YARWOOD in Warks/Ches/Staffs/Salop/Worcs but also in London - Northants, Lincs and adj counties.
PENTLAND in Warks/Worcs/Staffs, IRL: Arm & Down. NZ post 1884 and SCO pre 1800. ORKNEY earlier
COLLERIN aka COLLINS GALLAGHER and COX [RC] Highgate, Small Heath, Birmingham 1840-, IRL (?) earlier
FRYER/FRIAR Ulster SCO
BROOKES in WARKS/WORCS Moseley, RA
WRIGHT Northants
JENNER/LASCELLES ENG AUS
CHILD almost anywhere
MURLY/MURLEY Som & Dors NZ Brazil
READER & ROGERS Derby & Bucks, RODGERS Derby
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
|
Hi Colin,
Thank you for the two emails - I've been out most of the day, getting my hair cut, and buying birthday presents for my son's 18th at the weekend.
I've just been locating Emily Louisa's death registration details, to see if the age at death brings us to the same birth year - and it does. So, it the ages are correct that would make her eight years older than WHB. And she would have been twenty-nine when they married and he would have been twenty-oneish. (thinking it through).
Did you note, Colin et al, that the first WHB (so many!) was referred to as gent? What might that tell us?
I have to say (don't know about you, scrimnet) but I'm a bit overwhelmed by the possibilities - I personally find it easier to go through them all as I'm attacking them (if you know what I mean) than see them set down before me - must be my type of brain
Something is niggling in the back of my mind about reading an army service record, on ancestry, for a WHB, or someone from Spackbrook (not my spelling this time - theirs); so might see if I can find that.
Still digesting it all, to be honest + redoing my hair
Will put something, when I can think of something
Paulene
Hi Dobby - hope you aren't doing too much toing and froing How's it going?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
|
Off to look at the historical directories.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
|
okey doke - will do
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Colin Y
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 293
Uncle Fred - England XI 1908 - POW Berlin 1914-19
|
Hi
What do you think. It would make him 36 at marr5iage and her 29. makes more sense?
Hi Colin, Thank you for the two emails - I've been out most of the day, getting my hair cut, and buying birthday presents for my son's 18th at the weekend. I've just been locating Emily Louisa's death registration details, to see if the age at death brings us to the same birth year - and it does. So, it the ages are correct that would make her eight years older than WHB. And she would have been twenty-nine when they married and he would have been twenty-oneish. (thinking it through). Did you note, Colin et al, that the first WHB (so many!) was referred to as gent? What might that tell us? I have to say (don't know about you, scrimnet) but I'm a bit overwhelmed by the possibilities - I personally find it easier to go through them all as I'm attacking them (if you know what I mean) than see them set down before me - must be my type of brain Something is niggling in the back of my mind about reading an army service record, on ancestry, for a WHB, or someone from Spackbrook (not my spelling this time - theirs); so might see if I can find that. Still digesting it all, to be honest + redoing my hair Will put something, when I can think of something Paulene Hi Dobby - hope you aren't doing too much toing and froing How's it going?
It also rules the 'gent' and yes I did notie it! OUT, I think.
I am going to spend £7 on their wedding cert!
Colin
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
YARWOOD in Warks/Ches/Staffs/Salop/Worcs but also in London - Northants, Lincs and adj counties.
PENTLAND in Warks/Worcs/Staffs, IRL: Arm & Down. NZ post 1884 and SCO pre 1800. ORKNEY earlier
COLLERIN aka COLLINS GALLAGHER and COX [RC] Highgate, Small Heath, Birmingham 1840-, IRL (?) earlier
FRYER/FRIAR Ulster SCO
BROOKES in WARKS/WORCS Moseley, RA
WRIGHT Northants
JENNER/LASCELLES ENG AUS
CHILD almost anywhere
MURLY/MURLEY Som & Dors NZ Brazil
READER & ROGERS Derby & Bucks, RODGERS Derby
|
|
|
willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
|
Trying to work out a year of birth - 1850 - not sure
As I said, I wonder if the historical directories has the answer - do you have time to help me look, Colin?
www.historicaldirectories.org
They usually have any gents/nobility at the start/beginning of the town/place.
If you can, one of us can look in Staffs and the other Warks - using keyword search.
Paulene
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
|
Doing Staffs at mo.
For: Brookes, william henry
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
|
Results for Staffs:
Kelly's Directory ofr Staffordshire, 1896,190 & 1912
Magistrates for the County
Brookes William Henry, J.P. Fern Leigh, Mellish Road, Walsall
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
