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Topic: Sawley with Wilsthorpe C41,51,61 Saxton family (Read 2371 times)
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willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
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Nothing came up for Wawickshire; or any of the other counties.
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willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
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Hi Scrimnet 
Just off to see if I can find that army service record.
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willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
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The problem is that I'm not sure what I'm expecting to find (if you catch my drift) - as the WHB of the cwgc's army service record won't be here , will it - or have I got that wrong (it will be in Glasgow).
The Spackbrook one can't be his!
Am I making sense, Scrimnet? 
Paulene
P.S. What is GSL - you and Colin have your own language! 
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willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
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Where can we get access to Hart's Army Lists for 1880 - 1916, I wonder  Any ideas, team?
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Colin Y
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 292
Uncle Fred - England XI 1908 - POW Berlin 1914-19
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Thanks you two!
You really are amazing! I am ashamed of myself when I see that as I was going to bed you two were clearly just getting in to it.
For clarity I was sent an 1891 census yesterday by a Brookes family researcher who responsded to a plea for further family help in view of the suurprising plethora of W H Bs in Warks, Worcs & Staffs.
I have been through the Midland research which includes all the Directories, Electoral rolls etc and yes I had found the JP, Paulene and have concluded he WAS the Volunteer but, while he could be the father of the Col. and could explain the Harborne connection... I dont think he is.
Here is my logic:
1891 Census shows Col W H B (if it is him) aged 21
- ergo this WHB was born 1870...
- if this is him then, when he married in 1906 he would have been 36 and, as Emily was born in 1877 she would have been 29.
The same 1891 census shows the father of that household (just William - if that doesnt take you back to your schoolboy lit!) to be 41 - ergo HE was born in 1850
The 1891 Family were all born and living, at 1891, in the same tightish area see http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=studley&daddr=alcester++to:feckenham+to:%22astwood+bank%22&hl=en&geocode=&mra=ls&sll=52.262143,-1.940203&sspn=0.011583,0.042615&g=alcester+studley+feckenham+%22astwood+bank%22&ie=UTF8&z=12
My later info on Col WHB and his wife Emily & children is that they chose to live in Moseley between the wars - her family were then close by and clearly so were his - if this is his family.
We originally relied upon the (cwgc) statement that he was 58 at death - when he was still working. If this is him on the 1891 thats another fib and he was in fact 72 - his wife 67. This makes more sense...doesnt it?
I suggest that we 'breathe for the few days it will take for me to get copies of the Marriage Cert for Col WHB and Emily L Pentland and the death cert for Col W H B and see what they tell us because they will provide a definite answer to his birthplace and fathers name, trade etc. Wont they?
If you guys are happy with that, I'll go for both today?
Colin
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YARWOOD in Warks/Ches/Staffs/Salop/Worcs but also in London - Northants, Lincs and adj counties.
PENTLAND in Warks/Worcs/Staffs, IRL: Arm & Down. NZ post 1884 and SCO pre 1800. ORKNEY earlier
COLLERIN aka COLLINS GALLAGHER and COX [RC] Highgate, Small Heath, Birmingham 1840-, IRL (?) earlier
FRYER/FRIAR Ulster SCO
BROOKES in WARKS/WORCS Moseley, RA
WRIGHT Northants
JENNER/LASCELLES ENG AUS
CHILD almost anywhere
MURLY/MURLEY Som & Dors NZ Brazil
READER & ROGERS Derby & Bucks, RODGERS Derby
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willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
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Hi Colin,
I think the wedding certificate is a must; but to be honest, as I said last night, I not absolutely sure about the birth certificate, Colin.
I suspect scrimnet may well come up with something before they arrive 
Paulene
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Colin Y
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 292
Uncle Fred - England XI 1908 - POW Berlin 1914-19
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Hi Paulene... can't you sleep? 
Which Birth certificate are your referring to?
The only one for this family that I know of is Emily Louise's and I have the family bible, in which her father wrote all his children's births and baptisms in, so I am sure of that one.
I have sent for both the Marr Cert and the Cols Death cert. Between them we should get it sorted.
The most surprising to me is that CWGC got his age at death wrong. I assumed they would have it from his enrolment and I haven't seen that but his non active role is to some extent explained by his age and while his death a 58 seems less than normal at that time/age his death at 72 would be perfectly unsurprising... I suppose your medical background would verify such a judgment ;-) If his wife could fib about her age for the 1911 census ... 'salt for the gander'?
I have had a look in th 1901 and 1911 this morning. I couldn't see the whole family anywhere tho I did find a William in the bicycle trade in the area of Birmingham I know and his Mum asa needlewoman in Redditch - home of sewing needles and surgery needless - whether it refers in her case to dress making or making needles I don't know.
I am taking advantage of the sun to get some weeding and planting in and to remove the tasty tulips from within Rabbit range! Ill be online for a bit now and again later but it will be 10 days before we see both certs so , may I say - you can catch up on your sleep and celebrate that 18th. I really really do appreciate all you have been doing and have greatly enjoyed the 'chats' with both you and Graham. Without you I would not have got as far in the time. What I will have to tell Emily Louise's Aunts descendants in NZ in the autumn will be very different from what I had until a week ago.
Thanks again and keep in touch, especially if I can help you at all.
Colin
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Logged
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YARWOOD in Warks/Ches/Staffs/Salop/Worcs but also in London - Northants, Lincs and adj counties.
PENTLAND in Warks/Worcs/Staffs, IRL: Arm & Down. NZ post 1884 and SCO pre 1800. ORKNEY earlier
COLLERIN aka COLLINS GALLAGHER and COX [RC] Highgate, Small Heath, Birmingham 1840-, IRL (?) earlier
FRYER/FRIAR Ulster SCO
BROOKES in WARKS/WORCS Moseley, RA
WRIGHT Northants
JENNER/LASCELLES ENG AUS
CHILD almost anywhere
MURLY/MURLEY Som & Dors NZ Brazil
READER & ROGERS Derby & Bucks, RODGERS Derby
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Colin Y
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 292
Uncle Fred - England XI 1908 - POW Berlin 1914-19
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Hi Paulene
I found the 1891 Family on the 1881!
Household:
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Williams BROOKS Head M Male 34 Studley, Warwick, England Painter
Eliza BROOKS Wife M Female 29 Feckenham, Worcester, England Machine Needle Reducer
Henry BROOKS Son Male 11 Alcester, Warwick, England Scholar
Fredrick BROOKS Son Male 9 Alcester, Warwick, England Scholar
Ellen BROOKS Dau Female 7 Alcester, Warwick, England Scholar
Jane BROOKS Dau Female 5 Alcester, Warwick, England Scholar
Lilley BROOKS Dau Female 3 Astwood Bank, Worcester, England
Source Information:
Dwelling Feckenham Road
Census Place Feckenham, Worcester, England
Family History Library Film 1341740
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3107 / 65
Page Number 21
Father was born in Warwicks, Living in Worcs and surname mispelled / transcribed!
Colin
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Logged
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YARWOOD in Warks/Ches/Staffs/Salop/Worcs but also in London - Northants, Lincs and adj counties.
PENTLAND in Warks/Worcs/Staffs, IRL: Arm & Down. NZ post 1884 and SCO pre 1800. ORKNEY earlier
COLLERIN aka COLLINS GALLAGHER and COX [RC] Highgate, Small Heath, Birmingham 1840-, IRL (?) earlier
FRYER/FRIAR Ulster SCO
BROOKES in WARKS/WORCS Moseley, RA
WRIGHT Northants
JENNER/LASCELLES ENG AUS
CHILD almost anywhere
MURLY/MURLEY Som & Dors NZ Brazil
READER & ROGERS Derby & Bucks, RODGERS Derby
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willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
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Hi Colin,
You're right I must get to bed earlier tonight - because I've been out in the day I answer my post replies, and they keep coming, so time just goes on before you know it. But, I do tend to be a bit of a night-owl.
Sorry, missed the bit about the death certificate; thought you were going to send for a birth certificate for one of the family you found 
I'll be interested to see what they say, regarding the age they give WHB on his death certificate; and the father's occupations on the marriage certificate. Let's hope they've got a slack period at the moment and they come through quickly. I have to send for a marriage certificate, for the family tree I'm doing for my friend - hope it comes before the easter break.
Don't blame you for taking a break, I think it's sometimes a good idea when you've been through an intensive period in your research; you come back more refreshed.
Enjoy the good weather, Colin - I know what you mean about the rabbits. Sometimes I think the area near where you live looks a bit like Tellytubby land, with all those rabbits
Anyway, bye for now.
Paulene
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willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
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Well, I don't think we'll get much further online - I think we've explored most avenues. Either the certificates will reveal all, or you will find a whole family of Brookes graves all lying together at Harborne.
If it was me I'd like to get hold of his army service record (but then I like that sort of thing), but it's difficult without his birth details. It should make interesting reading.
But, I have every faith that if you if anybody can find something you will, scrimnet.
All my threads seem to go I'm afraid Someone sent me about seven pms the other night, which was nice; but another reason I didn't get to bed Don't mind - like helping.
Right, must do some jobs.
Take care,
Paulene
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