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Topic: Sawley with Wilsthorpe C41,51,61 Saxton family (Read 2452 times)
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Colin Y
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 293
Uncle Fred - England XI 1908 - POW Berlin 1914-19
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Hi fellow Rootscahatters
In an effort to show a friend that ancestors are never boring - as he thought - and that there is always a surprise in there somewhere I have been looking for his ancestors and I get to oddities and a dead end with William Saxton who married Sarah Perkins both of Sawley, who wed in Sawley 10 Dec 1837. I see 4 children: John, Elizabeth, William and Sarah all born in Sawley.
Q. I can find no record of William's Saxton birth or his parentage (b 1813 Sawley in 1881 C)
Q. I have seen a Thomas Saxton born in Sawley in the 1881 with a good sized family. He may be a brother but how can I find out?
Sarah is the main lead for my friend in that she was his Granny.
Can any kind soul help me with linking information about this family, please?
Thanks
Colin
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YARWOOD in Warks/Ches/Staffs/Salop/Worcs but also in London - Northants, Lincs and adj counties.
PENTLAND in Warks/Worcs/Staffs, IRL: Arm & Down. NZ post 1884 and SCO pre 1800. ORKNEY earlier
COLLERIN aka COLLINS GALLAGHER and COX [RC] Highgate, Small Heath, Birmingham 1840-, IRL (?) earlier
FRYER/FRIAR Ulster SCO
BROOKES in WARKS/WORCS Moseley, RA
WRIGHT Northants
JENNER/LASCELLES ENG AUS
CHILD almost anywhere
MURLY/MURLEY Som & Dors NZ Brazil
READER & ROGERS Derby & Bucks, RODGERS Derby
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suzard
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10329
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1861 they had a daughter mary too
1861
Jail Yd sawley
William Saxton head m 49 Boatman
Sarah wife 45 lace hand
Elizabeth daughter 20 lace hand
William son 17 lace hand
Sarah daughter 10 scholar
Mary daughter 7 Scholar
John son 5 scholar
all b sawley
RG9 2491 114 15
Suz
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
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Hi Colin,
I've found a group born in Sawley, with the surname SAXON (which the IGI groups together as one of the forms alongside Saxton):
They are all in Batch C059691
Ann Saxon chr: 31 Mar 1815
William Saxon chr: 04 Apr 1816 (*age 4 years)
These both have Father : Edward Mother: Elizabeth
Thomas Saxon chr: 05 May 1816
Father: Edmund Mother: Elizabeth
Now, I'm wondering whether the father's name has been mis-transcribed in Thomas's entry.
I see there is marriage, in 1811, for an Edward Saxon to an Elizabeth Rolleston (* not PR); but I can't find one for an Edmund to Elizabeth.
Food for thought.
Paulene 
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Colin Y
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 293
Uncle Fred - England XI 1908 - POW Berlin 1914-19
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Hey 'Willlow',
Long time no read! Trust you are well?
Thanks for tht input. I had seen the chr at age 4 on IGI and noted it which makes his D of B 1811/12.
I like the priest being H of H as a reason for the Edmund/Edward. I havent found any Edmunds in this family, his misspelling of Saxton as Saxon then fits too ;-).
The daughter Ann was news to me too, so thanks for that.
Was the marr of Ed with Elizabeth Rolleston also in Sawley?
Your expertise is OTT for me : what do you mean by the "* not PR" The marriage or the chr were not on Parish Records? or both?
You may recall my previous mystery re. Nahneen and Algorta...? The 1911 C confirms they were sisters and born Ireland but no progress there , yet!
Again thanks for this any more is welcome, as ever.
Colin
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YARWOOD in Warks/Ches/Staffs/Salop/Worcs but also in London - Northants, Lincs and adj counties.
PENTLAND in Warks/Worcs/Staffs, IRL: Arm & Down. NZ post 1884 and SCO pre 1800. ORKNEY earlier
COLLERIN aka COLLINS GALLAGHER and COX [RC] Highgate, Small Heath, Birmingham 1840-, IRL (?) earlier
FRYER/FRIAR Ulster SCO
BROOKES in WARKS/WORCS Moseley, RA
WRIGHT Northants
JENNER/LASCELLES ENG AUS
CHILD almost anywhere
MURLY/MURLEY Som & Dors NZ Brazil
READER & ROGERS Derby & Bucks, RODGERS Derby
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willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
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Hi Colin,
Sorry for the delay in replying - typed this reply once already, and lost it all 
I'm wondering if you've got me mixed up with another Willow - willow2670 (with cat's whiskers avator). There are a few of us on rootschat - if I had known I would have picked another name - less confusing for everyone! We did meet up recently on the thread about Birmingham brass founders, though, which is probably where the confusion came about.
I'm fine, though - nice of you to ask
Anyway, back to the marriage on the IGI. If you put in the names Elizabeth Rolleston and Edward Saxton marriage ate 1811 you will see that five possibles come up - for a marriage dated 31 January 1811. Now if you take a look at the Batch information given in the bottom left-hand corner it doesn't start with the usual M0 (some are different but this is the general rule). That leads me to believe they are all submitted entries - where someone has possibly found something, but not the actual parish register entry. Therefore, you must treat the information with caution, and find a proper entry, if you can.
This explains it for you, Colin:
www.rootschat.com/links/05x5
The Hugh Wallis site has all the proper parish registers extracted from the IGI and is useful:
www.rootschat.com/links/05x7
And, on the Hugh Wallis site it says there are marriage entries for Sawley from 1809 - so it is possible it wasn't at Sawley, Colin.
You could contact the people on this Look-up site to see if they can look for you:
www.rootschat.com/links/05x6
If it isn't here then you have to start looking elsewhere, Colin - perhaps trying to establish where the bride and groom were born, and then checking those parishes, etc.
Hope this helps - if you need any more help just yell!
Kind regards,
Paulene
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Colin Y
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 293
Uncle Fred - England XI 1908 - POW Berlin 1914-19
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Hi
Well, that's really helpful, thanks, and yes the cats whiskers avatar Willow has been really helpful before. I didnt spot the difference!
I saw MANY more than 5 copies of that record and, as you say, noted no Batch Numbers on any!
My work here is on Rodgers and Saxton families in the Shardlow Registration district of Derbyshire - Alvaston to Long Eaton and Sawley. Its along the canal and River Trent. They were boatmen/lacemakers/market gardeners etc. Some seem to have moved down county from the Bakewell area where they were coal miners.
On the Brassfounders you'll be amused to know that my Gt GT Granfathers company Merry, Parker & Merry - he was the Parker - made a patented paper clip with a solid brass engraved front which carried their name and has been seen on the web at Auctions lately! never found anything in detail about his original employers tho!
Again your help and advice is really useful and valued.
Thanks
Colin
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YARWOOD in Warks/Ches/Staffs/Salop/Worcs but also in London - Northants, Lincs and adj counties.
PENTLAND in Warks/Worcs/Staffs, IRL: Arm & Down. NZ post 1884 and SCO pre 1800. ORKNEY earlier
COLLERIN aka COLLINS GALLAGHER and COX [RC] Highgate, Small Heath, Birmingham 1840-, IRL (?) earlier
FRYER/FRIAR Ulster SCO
BROOKES in WARKS/WORCS Moseley, RA
WRIGHT Northants
JENNER/LASCELLES ENG AUS
CHILD almost anywhere
MURLY/MURLEY Som & Dors NZ Brazil
READER & ROGERS Derby & Bucks, RODGERS Derby
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willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
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Pleasure, Colin
My parents lived, after they retired. near Sawley; so I know it well.
I was brought up in the Beeston, Chilwell and Attenborough area.
Wondered if you had seen this Derbyshire site, Colin:
www.wirksworth.org.uk
Paulene
Wish I could find something from my Black Country lot on the web - lucky thing! 
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Colin Y
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 293
Uncle Fred - England XI 1908 - POW Berlin 1914-19
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Again many thanks.
I had seen that but didnt realise that this WIRKSWORT set of records would cover greater Derbyshire. I wil have a really careful look.
Black Country? Where? My Yarwoods and Coxs are from all over what seems to be called 'Yammee-land" by some of my former students!
Have you looked at www.midlandshistoricaldata.org
Can I pass you another oddity I cant find, SVP? William Henry Brookes died in 1942 a much decorated soldier from the RFA. He was buried in St peters Ch at harborne where my brother was buried in the same year. WH was at the time Lt Col and Senior recruiting officer for the Army in the midlands. I cant find any thing to tell me what happened to him and where he died. He was my Grans brother in Law, his wifes name was Emily Louise and his son, also Bill, also a soldier who was born in India before the WW1 and married in 1946 who was once on the invite list for parties at our family home seems to have disappeared from view. I knew only his name and though i must have met him had no idea what his connection was. I was only about 7 so hopefully forgive but he may still be alive... any ideas how I might trace him? I found his Mum in the recently released B&MFHS (above www ref.) data - electoral rolls, etc - in Moseley, Brum.
Its ideas I am running out of!
Again thanks
Colin
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Logged
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YARWOOD in Warks/Ches/Staffs/Salop/Worcs but also in London - Northants, Lincs and adj counties.
PENTLAND in Warks/Worcs/Staffs, IRL: Arm & Down. NZ post 1884 and SCO pre 1800. ORKNEY earlier
COLLERIN aka COLLINS GALLAGHER and COX [RC] Highgate, Small Heath, Birmingham 1840-, IRL (?) earlier
FRYER/FRIAR Ulster SCO
BROOKES in WARKS/WORCS Moseley, RA
WRIGHT Northants
JENNER/LASCELLES ENG AUS
CHILD almost anywhere
MURLY/MURLEY Som & Dors NZ Brazil
READER & ROGERS Derby & Bucks, RODGERS Derby
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willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
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Hi Colin,
My mystery man is Thomas Adams, born about 1785 - iron moulder/blast furnace manager. He died in 1859, and I found he is buried about a mile and half away from where he died, at St. John's, Kates Hill.
The family lived in the Tipton area from at least 1810, when the first son Edward was born. Last address Dudley Port, Tipton.
Trouble is I can't find him on the 1851 census, which would tell me where he came from. The 1841 says he was from Staffs, but may be wrong. Several of my relatives have looked for him on the census, but none of us can find him and his wife, Nancy. The strange thing, too, is that his second son and his family are missing from the 1851, too - even though all the children are registered as being born there 
Only thing I can do is look for baptisms, and try and eliminate those I find - by seeing where they ended up, Colin.
So, re your mystery man - you've found his burial, but not his death certificate? Is that right, Colin? Nothing in the newspapers?
Paulene
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willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
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That's very kind of you, Colin. Even if you don't find anything it's always nice to know there is someone who knows the area well if you need to ask. I'm in East Northants, and have visited a couple of times, but my knowledge comes from books, maps, etc. I think you flatter me about being an experienced family historian; I've only been doing this 3 to 4 years, so have still lots to learn - I just like finding things out, and helping other people.
You could put a post on the armed services board, but I suspect it's as much the puzzle about what happend to him afterwards that is the issue, Colin. Have you got his army service record, etc off ancestry?
Paulene
Colin, I believe my ancestors probably lived at where Dudley Port met Burnt Tree - can you tell me where that would be on a modern map, please?
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willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
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Hi Colin,
That was my first reply, before I got your other post 
I think that Thomas and Nancy married at All Saints, West Bromwich - only very slight doubt is that it says both of this parish + she is down on the marriage register as Anne Smith, not Nancy. Her burial is under the name Nancy, and she is Nancy on the 1841 census and death certificate. But there is no other wedding, as far as I can see. She is down as Ann on six out of seven of the baptism entries for her children, at Tipton St. Martin.
Thomas and Nancy's children seem to get married at either All Saints, WB or St. Giles, Rowley Regis. No indication at all that they were non-conformist. Eldest son, Edward, who I am descended from was later a trustee for the Wesleyan Church in Ilkeston, Derbyshire ( his wife and family funded the building of a small Wesleyan methodist chapel there after he died).
There is a possibilty that the Deepmore, Shareshill, baptism in 1785 is him, but the vicar sadly only put the father's name, which doesn't help! Nancy's death age is pretty accurate as far as her year of birth is concerned.
Would you like me to send you a pm with my email address, Colin, so you can contact me and send any files?
Bye for now,
Paulene
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