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Topic: Place name near Linlithgow (Read 1023 times)
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RichardK
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 361
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Can anyone help with this place name please? It's the location of a marriage in 1917, and it is also listed as the bride's address. It looks like it could be 'The Parage, Avontoun, Linlithgow' - I've found Avontoun to the south(ish) of Linlithgow Bridge, but can't seem to find anything like 'The Parage' around there. Does anyone know whether such a place exists or have a better suggestion as to what the writing says?
Thanks
Richard.
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Kelly, Birkenhead & Co. Kildare
Marshall, Luton & area
Reid, Co. Kildare & Dublin
Cox, Barnack Northamptonshire
Edwards, Pagham, Sussex & area
Scott, Roxburghshire & Perthshire
Mitchell, Warwickshire
Savage, Hampshire
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RichardK
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 361
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Willison
Thanks for looking - it's very good of you to have a look. I have tried old-maps, but there wasn't anything obvious. I suppose it may well be one of the houses - maybe they actually got married in the bride's house.
Whatever you do, don't cause an accident on the road! I used to work with a town planner, who said that planners should pay more car insurance for their habit of stopping abruptly to look at interesting buildings / unauthorised building works etc.
Many thanks for your help.
Regards
Richard.
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Kelly, Birkenhead & Co. Kildare
Marshall, Luton & area
Reid, Co. Kildare & Dublin
Cox, Barnack Northamptonshire
Edwards, Pagham, Sussex & area
Scott, Roxburghshire & Perthshire
Mitchell, Warwickshire
Savage, Hampshire
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corbiekid
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
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Hi RichardK,
I am familiar with this area but do not know the name. 
Maybe we could pinpoint the house by surnames and censuses, what is the bride's name? 
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RichardK
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 361
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Bride is Christina RHIND (groom is William AITKEN) - but I know that in the 1901 census she's at Charleston Farm, Duffus, Morayshire. Her parents stayed up in Morayshire (dying there in 1911 and 1924), so I presume Christina came down south alone, quite likely to work as a domestic servant.
Thanks
Richard.
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Kelly, Birkenhead & Co. Kildare
Marshall, Luton & area
Reid, Co. Kildare & Dublin
Cox, Barnack Northamptonshire
Edwards, Pagham, Sussex & area
Scott, Roxburghshire & Perthshire
Mitchell, Warwickshire
Savage, Hampshire
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corbiekid
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
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This has really got me puzzled. I agree it looks like "The Parage" and I had a look at the marriage entry on Scotland's People.
I noticed that the P in Parage is not written the same way as the P in Parish (in the other marriage entry on the same Scotlands People page) and wondered if that was significant.
A few years ago, the Registrar in Bo'ness told me that two registers were kept. One stayed in the Registrar's office and the other, when completed, went to Register House in Edinburgh. I was told this when I asked why, despite having her birth certificate, my greatgrandmother (Johan, and obviously female) was in Scotlands People as John and male!! 
The Registrar was meant to fill in both registers together at the time of registration but it was common practice to fill in one with all the details and then fill in the second at his leisure. This lead to copying errors and I think this is this case here.
In your marriage record, a capital L is written with a curly looping top and could be mistaken for a P and combined with bad writing, I think the "The Lodge" was mistaken for "The Parage".
On the 1856 map, there is a lodge to the east of Avontoun House and later there was a south lodge (still standing today). I don't know when east lodge was demolished or when south lodge was built but I reckon Christina Rhind lived, and was married, in one of them.
That's my theory but I am more than happy to be shot down in flames if someone finds "The Parage".
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RichardK
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 361
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Corbiekid
That's a nice theory - and certainly some sort of lodge to Avontoun is highly plausible. Unless someone finds a better suggestion I think that's probably the theory to go with.
Thanks - you've obviously put some thought into this!
Richard.
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Kelly, Birkenhead & Co. Kildare
Marshall, Luton & area
Reid, Co. Kildare & Dublin
Cox, Barnack Northamptonshire
Edwards, Pagham, Sussex & area
Scott, Roxburghshire & Perthshire
Mitchell, Warwickshire
Savage, Hampshire
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mr-aitch
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 34
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi, All.
In cases of doubt I'm a great believer in going back to the original for the answer and I did that today at New Register House. I looked at both the fiche copy and the original book.
And the answer? It is, without any shadow of doubt "The Garage" and the problem you have, Richard, was caused by the digitisation. I had it checked by three members of staff just to make sure that my eyes weren't deceiving me.
As for finding out where it was, the best way of doing that will be to consult the Valuation Rolls for 1917 available at the West Lothian Local History Library.
If I may I'd like to offer an alternative procedure from that quoted to Corbiekid by the Bo'ness Registrar. My understanding of the procedures is:
Yes, two books were kept. If you have any personal experience of registering events you will know that for births and deaths you only signed one book, i.e. the original. The Registrar made a copy in the second book, i.e. the copy, and wrote your name under the word "signed". After the end of the year the Registrar compiled an index at the back of each book. The original book, ie. with the actual signatures, was required to be sent to GROS. That's what happened and you can satisfy yourself that was so - look at any birth or death image you have downloaded from ScotlandsPeople and you will see the informant's actual signature. Ergo, the original book is in NRH and not the Registrar's copy.
(Marriages did not have original signatures because the couple signed the schedule and the Regsitrar wrote the names in under "signed". For some marriages by Warrant of the Sheriff-Substitute the couple delivered the schedule to the Registrar and signed themselves.)
The index compiled by the Registrar was used to make the Digros and SP computer indexes so any error in that will show up on both systems. Just this week I had problems finding a marriage under the man's name and only found it using the woman's. I checked the fiche of the Registrar's index which confirmed that he hadn't been indexed.
If I can find some time Richard I'll have wee look for The Garage.
Cheers, all.
Tom
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RichardK
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 361
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Tom
Many thanks for looking that up at New Register House - checking the original registers is always best, but it's not easy to visit Edinburgh from southern England. It's very good of you.
I'll put the location down as 'The Garage' - I can't help but think of the modern usage of the term, but maybe it was applied more generally to outbuildings? Or maybe it was an independent residence?
Many thanks
Richard.
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Kelly, Birkenhead & Co. Kildare
Marshall, Luton & area
Reid, Co. Kildare & Dublin
Cox, Barnack Northamptonshire
Edwards, Pagham, Sussex & area
Scott, Roxburghshire & Perthshire
Mitchell, Warwickshire
Savage, Hampshire
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mr-aitch
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 34
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Tom
Many thanks for looking that up at New Register House - checking the original registers is always best, but it's not easy to visit Edinburgh from southern England. It's very good of you.
I'll put the location down as 'The Garage' - I can't help but think of the modern usage of the term, but maybe it was applied more generally to outbuildings? Or maybe it was an independent residence?
Many thanks
Richard.
Back again, Richard, having had a look at the Valuation Rolls for 1916-1917 for Avontoun, Linlithgow. They don't give us a
definitive answer but I think we can work out what was intended. These are the details - Avontoun, 1916-1917:
House, gardens & offices
Proprietor: Charles Coenelius Maconochie
Occupier: proprietor
House at stables
Prop: as above
Occ: empty
West Lodge
Prop: as above
Occ: Alexander C. Mackenzie, gardener
East Lodge
Prop: as above
Occ: James dawson, forester
Plantations
Pro: as above
Occ: proprietor
Grass Parks - part of
Prop: as above
Tenant: William & George Gray
Grass Parks
Prop: as above
Occ: proprietor
1917-1918 was exactly as 1916-1917. The changes for 1918-1919 were that the house at the stables was occupied by
Alexander C. Mackenzie, the gardener; the West Lodge was occupied by a new forester, Thomas Roby and the East Lodge
was empty.
I consulted the Local History experts - extremely knowledgeable people - at the Local History Library, and their opinion is that
"The Garage" was the "house at the stables" in the V.R. because it was the done thing in those early days of motoring just to
convert one of the stables to house the car.
I'm persuaded.
Just out of interest, I noticed that a William Aitken, farmer and coal merchant, owned property at Mains Road just up the road
from Avontoun. By 1818-1819 he is letting the property to a married lady Mary McLeod and he has more property at
Stockbridge, Linlithgow. The experts thought he might well be the well known Willie Aitken who later became very wealthy
owning much property in Linlithgow.
As for Christina's husband William he was one of the brothers renting Woodcockdale Farm just a short distance west of
Avontoun. Related to Willie Aitken?
If you take a trip to:
http://maps.live.com/
and type EH49 6SQ in the location box. This will place a marker at Kettilstoun Mains and you can zoom in keeping the
marker in the centre. Close down the navigation panel on the left - the marker will disappear - and change to an aerial view.
You should now see the junction of the A706 with Mill Road, Mains Road (the A706) and Kettilstoun Mains. Zoom right in and
the remains of a road can be seen just west of the roundabout (under A706 if the labels are turned on) which is all that remains
of the carriage road at the East Lodge. Scrolling south-west down the A706 takes us to Brookfield Metals whose scrap-yard
sits on the site of Avontoun House. Scrolling further south-west brings us to what I believe to be what's left of the West Lodge
and Stables although only the building between the trees and the road. The buildings behind the trees are modern. Continuing
further along the A706 the road takes a sharp bend across the River Avon and there is situated Woodcockdale Farm. Just out
of interest the field between Brookfield Metals and the River Avon is the site of the Battle of Linlithgow Bridge in 1526 - pity
someone has now flooded it for some reason.
Just for comparison I've attached a JPEG showing a small detail from the 1915 OS map of the West Lodge/Stables.
Hope these help.
mr-aitch
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RichardK
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 361
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Mr-Aitch
I think that goes well above and beyond the call of duty! Many thanks for the time and effort you have put into this. I don't know about any connection to the other William Aitken, but maybe I'll look into that.
Many thanks again.
Richard.
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Kelly, Birkenhead & Co. Kildare
Marshall, Luton & area
Reid, Co. Kildare & Dublin
Cox, Barnack Northamptonshire
Edwards, Pagham, Sussex & area
Scott, Roxburghshire & Perthshire
Mitchell, Warwickshire
Savage, Hampshire
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kirkmichael
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 79
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I can see a 'G' now, but I was always voting for a 'P' previously !
The ScotsOrigins website has a searchable database of the placename entries in the 1881 Census for Scotland, and there's no 'Parage'. Neither is there a 'Garage' but that's understandable !
Neither is there a ' par* ' that matches, - unfortunately a wildcard isn't allowed in the first three characters of the search term.
Wullie
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Aitken_1917_Rhind.JPG
