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Author Topic: any guesses of age of photo much appreciated  (Read 527 times)
mothball
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Posts: 281


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


any guesses of age of photo much appreciated
« on: Thursday 02 April 09 15:18 UTC (UK) »

This could be my third great grandfather who was Italian  and his Irish wife.    The back of the photo says " Sidney Webb Photographer to the Admiralty (By Appointment) Diamond Street Pembroke Dock.

Any guesses much appreciated


* Unknown_photo_F_Sidney_Webb_Diamond_St_Pembroke_Dock_resized.jpg (136.82 KB, 646x1024 - viewed 163 times.)
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Devote - Italy - Pembroke
Barni - Itlay - Bristol
Morris - Pembroke Dock 1786
Wignall - London - 1800
Willison
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Posts: 62



Re: any guesses much appreciated
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 02 April 09 15:37 UTC (UK) »

'Any guesses' as regards what?  Huh
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Willison and Pattison (in Glasgow), Kinnes (Edinburgh & Fife)
mothball
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 281


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: any guesses of age of photo much appreciated
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 02 April 09 15:40 UTC (UK) »

Sorry about the missing words, am new, the advertising block got in the way!
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Devote - Italy - Pembroke
Barni - Itlay - Bristol
Morris - Pembroke Dock 1786
Wignall - London - 1800
mothball
RootsChat Senior
****
Posts: 281


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: any guesses of age of photo much appreciated
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 02 April 09 15:43 UTC (UK) »

Back of photo


* Unknown_photo_B_Sidney_Webb_Diamond_St_Pembroke_Dock.jpg (370.64 KB, 1000x1550 - viewed 159 times.)
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Devote - Italy - Pembroke
Barni - Itlay - Bristol
Morris - Pembroke Dock 1786
Wignall - London - 1800
ShaunJ
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 3737



WWW
Re: any guesses of age of photo much appreciated
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 02 April 09 15:57 UTC (UK) »

The photographer Sidney Webb (born in Bristol circa 1834) was in Diamond Street, Pembroke Dock, for some years around 1870.  He was in Commercial Row in the early 1860's and by 1881 he'd moved to Law Street. How does a circa 1870 date square with the information you have about this family?
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Angell - Norfolk/Cambridgeshire c.1780
Bale - Rotherhithe 1820's
Bradbury - Derby/Nottingham
Folder - Westmorland
Gale - Lymington/Rotherhithe 1780-1820's
Jones - Liverpool - c.1805 -  Whitesmith
Grey  - Llangwillog - c.1820
McCrickard c.1825 Ireland
Devine c. 1835 Dublin
Crane - Liverpool c.1805
Thornton - Liverpool c.1805
Oliver - Lambeth 1800's
Kendrick - London - c.1775
Hollis - Northampton - 1774
Potter - Leicester - c.1775
Cresswell - c 1780
Wingod - London
mothball
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 281


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: any guesses of age of photo much appreciated
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 02 April 09 16:39 UTC (UK) »

Hello,    yes, that would put the man and woman to be his son and daughter-in-law, both second generation Italian.    Their first child was born in Bristol in 1873, but died in Pembroke in 1875.   The second child they had was born in 1876 in Pembroke.

I couldn't find exactly when Sidney Webb started work as a photographer.   The first generation Italian family had their last child in 1852, I guess it rules him out as being in the photo.

I was intrigued by the 'Photographer to the Admiralty' - whether this could date the photo.

I looked into Sidney Webb he is in the 1901 (12 Law Street) census working as a bricklayer aged 67!

Thanks


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Devote - Italy - Pembroke
Barni - Itlay - Bristol
Morris - Pembroke Dock 1786
Wignall - London - 1800
ShaunJ
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 3737



WWW
Re: any guesses of age of photo much appreciated
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 02 April 09 16:58 UTC (UK) »

The clothes should give us a good idea of the approximate date but I'm no expert - there are other RC's who can help with that.

Isn't it nice to see people smiling in an old photo?
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Angell - Norfolk/Cambridgeshire c.1780
Bale - Rotherhithe 1820's
Bradbury - Derby/Nottingham
Folder - Westmorland
Gale - Lymington/Rotherhithe 1780-1820's
Jones - Liverpool - c.1805 -  Whitesmith
Grey  - Llangwillog - c.1820
McCrickard c.1825 Ireland
Devine c. 1835 Dublin
Crane - Liverpool c.1805
Thornton - Liverpool c.1805
Oliver - Lambeth 1800's
Kendrick - London - c.1775
Hollis - Northampton - 1774
Potter - Leicester - c.1775
Cresswell - c 1780
Wingod - London
mothball
RootsChat Senior
****
Posts: 281


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: any guesses of age of photo much appreciated
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 02 April 09 17:16 UTC (UK) »

Yes it is, I don't see that very often.   If it is the pair that I've mentioned they were born 1852/3 each and he (Devote) went to Bristol from Pembroke to marry her (Barni) in 1871.   His sister had already married her brother! (1868) but never went back to Pembroke as far I know.

So, if you think the photo is c1870 then it could only have been this pair in my family.

Many thanks


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Devote - Italy - Pembroke
Barni - Itlay - Bristol
Morris - Pembroke Dock 1786
Wignall - London - 1800
ShaunJ
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 3737



WWW
Re: any guesses of age of photo much appreciated
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 02 April 09 19:50 UTC (UK) »

See this link for some insight from a relative of the photographer Sidney Webb. Perhaps his arrangement with the Admiralty was something to do with mugshots for dockyard security.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DYFED/2002-11/1038063106
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Angell - Norfolk/Cambridgeshire c.1780
Bale - Rotherhithe 1820's
Bradbury - Derby/Nottingham
Folder - Westmorland
Gale - Lymington/Rotherhithe 1780-1820's
Jones - Liverpool - c.1805 -  Whitesmith
Grey  - Llangwillog - c.1820
McCrickard c.1825 Ireland
Devine c. 1835 Dublin
Crane - Liverpool c.1805
Thornton - Liverpool c.1805
Oliver - Lambeth 1800's
Kendrick - London - c.1775
Hollis - Northampton - 1774
Potter - Leicester - c.1775
Cresswell - c 1780
Wingod - London
jim1
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4937


aint life grand


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Re: any guesses of age of photo much appreciated
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 02 April 09 20:52 UTC (UK) »

I think what you have here is late 1870's by the clothes style particularly
the mans.This braided frock coat and 4- in- hand cravat was popular throughout
the 1870's but the rounded corners of the card stock would date this after 1875.

jim
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Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke;Dillon;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;kane;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers;Whitworth.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Leics.Cooper;Preston
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom;Easthope
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Sawyer.
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
mothball
RootsChat Senior
****
Posts: 281


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: any guesses of age of photo much appreciated
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 02 April 09 21:05 UTC (UK) »

Thanks for that Shaun, yes, his relative said he moved to Pembroke Dock sometime after his marriage and started photography around 1868.   He was living in Commercial Row on the 1871 census working as a licensed victualler, it wasn't until the 1871 census he had moved to Diamond St (it is actually Dimond Street).  She didn't know when he was employed by the Admiralty.

The man in my photo, if he is Richard Devote was living in Pembroke when the census of 1871.   He moved and married in December 1871 in Bristol    He is on the 1881 census as living in Bristol, so I guess they their child died on a visit to Pembroke.   The child was a girl which I think she looks in the photo.  

Thanks Jim, I was just typing this reply.   Yes, they had this female child 1873-1875, then a boy in 1876 born in Bristol, many more childeren in Bristol until returning to Pembroke  by the 1901 census.  I never noticed before - the card was made in London.

Having these dates is a great help as there were three couples in the running.

His occupation was shoe maker.
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Devote - Italy - Pembroke
Barni - Itlay - Bristol
Morris - Pembroke Dock 1786
Wignall - London - 1800
mothball
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 281


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: any guesses of age of photo much appreciated
« Reply #11 on: Friday 03 April 09 11:06 UTC (UK) »

Hello Jim, sorry to be awkward, can you let me know if that date of card (post 1875) is flexible?   The reason I ask is the following.

Their first child a female was born in 1873 and died in 1875 in Pembroke.   The next child in 1876 was a male, so was the next child 1879 male, both born in Pembroke.

The child looks to me to be female and quite young.   As do the parents.

Richard Devote was born in 1852 and Angelina Barni in 1853, so in 1873 they would have been 20 and 21 which looks about right.

Interesting what you say about the man’s clothes.

Thanks again

Steven


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Devote - Italy - Pembroke
Barni - Itlay - Bristol
Morris - Pembroke Dock 1786
Wignall - London - 1800
jim1
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4937


aint life grand


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Re: any guesses of age of photo much appreciated
« Reply #12 on: Friday 03 April 09 12:26 UTC (UK) »

The child could be a girl or boy they were dressed pretty much alike.
The card stock has rounded corners which was a sea change for card
design from 1875 so not before that date.The only way this could be earlier
is if this is a reprint of an earlier photo.The lady's dress style was popular
throughout the 70's with this flared sleeve to her bodice popular from 1870
but fading from fashion towards the end of the decade.Depending on how
fashionable she was I would suggest 1876-9.On the evidence this is one of
the boys 1876 or 79.
The couple look mid 20's to me.

jim
Logged

Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke;Dillon;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;kane;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers;Whitworth.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Leics.Cooper;Preston
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom;Easthope
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Sawyer.
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
mothball
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 281


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: any guesses of age of photo much appreciated
« Reply #13 on: Friday 03 April 09 12:51 UTC (UK) »

Thanks very much for the reply.

They moved to Bristol 1879-1881 as the second son John was born in Pembroke then in the 1881 census they are in Bristol.

As Pembroke’s location is so far out, I wouldn’t have thought the latest fashions arrived there quickly.  I remember as a child in deepest Wales we were years behind!

Thanks again, least I know pretty surely it was one of the boys.

Steven

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Devote - Italy - Pembroke
Barni - Itlay - Bristol
Morris - Pembroke Dock 1786
Wignall - London - 1800
Redroger
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Posts: 2214


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: any guesses of age of photo much appreciated
« Reply #14 on: Friday 03 April 09 12:56 UTC (UK) »

From a variety of old photos that I have, also from rural parts of the UK, a date in the early 1880s would seem to be about right to me.
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