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Topic: John BARNES & Elizabeth King ELLEN & family (Read 967 times)
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bedfordshire boy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4748
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What I haven't seen so far is any reference from Australia to Bletsoe. Is this a figment of an LDS member's imagination, or is there really some document in Oz that names the village and John's date of birth. The date of birth, without a baptism in Bletsoe, implies that it came either from a standalone source eg family bible, or is complete fiction!
Is there any evidence that John, Susannah Eliza, and Joseph Samuel were siblings?
Not sure if I've mentioned this before but there are no burials in Bletsoe of any Barnes post 1800 except William 72 in 1829 and Ann 78 in 1832. So I don't know what happened to Joseph and Elizabeth (Infield) who married in 1809
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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fred2derf
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 319
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello John,
I think this is 'Mission Impossible' given the information that is currently available. Let's start with Susanna:
A Susanna Barnes, daughter of Joseph and Elizabeth, baptised at Bletsoe on 3 Dec 1815. As I said I'm in SE Asia and don't have access to certain resources that are available in Sydney. So I can't check the shipping reel for the 'Bussorah Merchant'
to see what it says about Susanna. I don't know if it lists a place of birth or her parents or not. Also I don't have access to the source that says she "... had entered the Refuge for the Destitute in 1831" and two years later was offered the possibility of emigration which she took with her father's permission. I don't know what it might say about her father other than a brewer's servant at 2 Collingwood Street, Spitalfields, East London.
Re the connection between John and Joseph, I've already mentioned that Joseph was a witness at the marriage of John's son Thomas Alfred. Thomas and Joseph married sisters. Again, I don't have a copy of that certificate so I don't know if it specifically says 'Uncle' or if the witness is just 'a Mr BARNES' who lives in the area. Thomas married Isabella STINSON and the other witness was Isabella's sister Elizabeth Jane spouse of a John BARNES.
Also Thomas Alfred is mentioned in an Insolvency Record for Joseph Samuel BARNES. Again, I don't know if it specifically says they are nephew & uncle.
Is there a birth or baptism for a Joseph BARNES on 30 Jul 1786 at Bletsoe ? Yes
An extracted baptism for a Joseph BARNS - parents William & Anne. Impossible to show this Joseph married an Elizabeth in Bletsoe, had some children after 1812 (so they don't show on IGI as extracted entries) and later moved to London and worked as a brewer's servant, hence the items that tie that occupation and place together in Susanna's story of her parents and of John's death certificate that lists his father as Joseph and a brewer.
I don't have access to the source for this either "Joseph Samuel Barnes - father Joseph Barnes - mother Elizabeth. Father's occupation Brewer's Servant. Address: Tarling Street, St. George in the East"
Regards,
Fred
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sandy44
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi everyone,
In regard to Joseph Barnes and Elizabeth Barnes being Witnesses to Thomas Barnes and Isabella Stinson's Marriage. I quote. Source: St John's Church of England. Wagga Wagga Parish Register - Marriages.
Marriage Date: 16 Jan, 1866 at Berry Jerry.
Minister: Rev Samuel Fox Minister of the Church of England at Wagga Wagga.
Groom: Thomas Alfred Barnes. Storekeeper of Murrumburrah aged 29 years. born London England.
Father: John Barnes. Storekeeper, Mother: Elizabeth King Ellen.
Bride: Isabella Stinson, spinster of Berry Jerry, aged 23 years, born Cunningham Creek, Father: Samuel Stinson, Squatter, Mother Elizabeth McGee.
WITNESSES: Jos Barnes & Elizabeth Barnes.
In The Stinsons of North Berry Jerry Book. By Barbara Carmichael.
Isabella married Thomas Barnes on 16th Jan, 1866 at Berry Jerry Station. The witnesses at the Marriage were: Joseph Barnes, Thomas's uncle and his wife Elizabeth Jane Stinson., who was Isabella's sister.
Source: Gormly Index (on Microfiche held at CSU Regional Archives)
John Barnes of Murrumburrah, late of Sydney and Melbourne, formerly of 111 Wood St, Cheapside, London. was shot by bushrangers. Aged 51 years. Buried Yass 3 Sep. 1863 - Sydney Morning Herald 10 Sept 1863.
A Fred Allsopp supplied the information that John Barnes was born 27 June 1812 at Bletsoe. some time ago. I have tried to no avail to contact Fred. to establish where he got the information.
Someone call Doug answered a contact of mine. last year saying If Joseph Samuel is the Joseph in his family here is what he has on dated...
They were from Bletsoe, England, and my line (Joseph's brother John) emigrated to Australia, into Canada and finally the U.S. 
Descendants of Joseph John Barnes.
1 Joseph John Barnes 1786- 1826
+Elizabeth Pickering
,,,,2 John (Frederick?) Barnes 1812-1863
........+Elizabeth King Ellen 1902-1886
.............3 William John Barnes 1834-1841
..............3 Thomas Alfred Barnes 1836-1902
............. 3 John Frederick Barnes 1837-1915
..............3 Elizabeth Jane Barnes 1839-1839
..............3 Mary Ellen Barnes 1839-1839
..............3 George Robert Barnes 1840-1920
..............3 William John Barnes 1842-
..............3 Edward Prior Barnes 1844-1900
.........................+Susannah Maria Gordon 1851-1927
........2 William Barnes 1815-
........2 Susanna Barnes 1816-
........2 Elizabeth Barnes 1817-
........2 Joseph Barnes 1824-
Regards
Sandra
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bedfordshire boy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4748
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Perhaps Fred Allsop got the information from the member submission on the IGI!
But surely it was the Joseph Barnes who was baptised at Bletsoe on 30 July 1786 (the only Joseph baptised at Bletsoe) who married Elizabeth Infield, not Elizabeth Pickering, at Bletsoe on 16 Oct 1809.
Strangely there are no Barnes in the August 1803 Muster List of men aged 17 - 55 at Bletsoe, in which both Joseph and his father William should have appeared.
Joseph's putative parents, William and Ann, were probably the William who was buried in Bletsoe on 18 Oct 1829 age 72, and the Ann Annis age 78 buried on 6 Oct 1832.
The NBI has a burial of Joseph John Barnes age 48 at St Ethelburga Bishopsgate, City of London on 1 July 1826. Whether this is the plain Joseph from Bletsoe is debatable
Are William and Elizabeth born 1815 and 1817 the ones who appear on the IGI as being born in Isleworth? If so it's odd that Susanna should have been baptised in Bletsoe on 3 Dec 1815 (per fred2derf). I think it possible that the only way to John born c1812 is laterally
I'm getting confused! Who was the John who ended up in the US via Australia and Canada - the brother of Joseph baptised 1786? It might explain the LDS interest in this family and the unsourced member submission.
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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fred2derf
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 319
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello David,
Thanks for your thoughts. I don't think this will ever be solved. I'm still waiting for someone to explain how John and Elizabeth and son Thomas and several other children arrived in 1841 and they baptised George Robert in 1840 in NSW.
Fred
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sandy44
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Guys,
No one has mentioned the Barnes Family in America. So I just thought I might copy what I found in the book Cootamundra Sons and Daughters. A collection of family stories from the Cootamundra District.2002.
Edward Prior Barnes, met Susanna Maria Gordon, daughter of a London solicitor, on a trip to London in 1871. The Married two years later in Balmain and made their home in Cootamundra, where they had 11 children, only seven of whom survived.
Edward Prior Barnes (John 1812 son) left Cootamundra in May 1896 because of ill health and lived in Sydney until his death in 1900. The remains were returned to Coolamundra for burial.
In 1902 Susanna Barnes married John James Miller, whom she had known for 29 years. He was the brother-in-law ot two of Susanna's daughters, Nellie and Hilda.
J J Miller and his wife, Susanna , sailed for Canada, c1903, settling in Vancouver. Before he left Australia J J established a home for his mother, Rebecca and sisters, Mary, Sarah and Jessie, in Sydney.
Six of Susanna's seven daughters (two of them with their husbands, Alexander Archibald and William Miller and families) joined the family in Canada, as did Compton South Miller (although Compton returned after 12 months in Canada).
The youngest Miller brother, Neil, was left in charge of the Miller family property, Littedale.
Maybe this is where the IGI activity comes from, for John Barnes, 1812.
Regards
Sandra
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