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Topic: Harriet Swales, York Help please! (Read 500 times)
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Arquebus
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 270
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We have been struggling to tie Thomas Swales to his supposed father (who may have been his grandfather as well).....no luck.
Perhaps if we change the topic, someone may spot Thomas' mother Harriet in the 1841 census?.....at least we might find out who she was living with??
We are certain she was born c1827 and would be about 14 in 1841. She apperas to have been born in York.
The 1871 census has her living at 7 Stocks Buildings St Saviours York, aged 44, Unmarried and a Laundress, with her son Thomas aged 20.
Thomas was born York 1850 / 51 and may have been christened at St Crux Church....if we have the right record for this.
At the age of 14 we would expect to find Harriet still with parents, particularly if she was interefered with by her father???
We hope someone can spot her, so thanks to whoever trys.
Regards Glynis
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ENFIELD...Colchester, DEARY & DIX...Norfolk & Oz, SLOLEY / SYMONS...Fremington Devon, BAKER...Deopham Norfolk, BANTACK...Ixworth, ALLISON...Suffolk / ALLISTON / ELLISTON/E...North East Essex, HOW /HOWE...North East Essex, SWALES..York / Middlesboro,METCALFE...York, WOODS / MOLLETT / GREEN....Norwich, BRATTY...N.Ireland (Derry and Belfast), MORGAN...Bicknor / Coleford Glos. & Middlesboro. FENN / WENDEN / ROOKARD....North East Essex. SNOW...Hampstead & Devon. BULL...Colchester.
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nutkin
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1075
My reason for digging! A baby nutkin!
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Did you see this on the IGI?
HARRIETT SWALES
Christening: 26 NOV 1826 Saint Olave, York, Yorkshire, England
Parents:
Mother: MARY SWALES
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Shields & Milner- Patrington & Bilton, Yorkshire Nixon & Bowers - Appleby, Broughton & Messingham, Lincolnshire Hancock &Tyson- Tetford, Skendleby & Spilsby, Lincolnshire Cochrane- Darvel, Loudon, Ayrshire Yuill, Hardie- Paisley, Renfrewshire Kennedy, Gardener & Clelland- Glasgow, Lanarkshire & Paisley, Renfrewshire Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Arquebus
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 270
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Yes, thank you,.... got the St Olaves one, but of course that still doesn't confirm she is the right one.
We guess she would have been at home aged 14 in the 1841 census, if she was jumped by her father when she was 23 / 24.......if she had moved out there would probably have been less of an opportunity.
Anyway, it is the only route we can go down as everything else is a blank.
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ENFIELD...Colchester, DEARY & DIX...Norfolk & Oz, SLOLEY / SYMONS...Fremington Devon, BAKER...Deopham Norfolk, BANTACK...Ixworth, ALLISON...Suffolk / ALLISTON / ELLISTON/E...North East Essex, HOW /HOWE...North East Essex, SWALES..York / Middlesboro,METCALFE...York, WOODS / MOLLETT / GREEN....Norwich, BRATTY...N.Ireland (Derry and Belfast), MORGAN...Bicknor / Coleford Glos. & Middlesboro. FENN / WENDEN / ROOKARD....North East Essex. SNOW...Hampstead & Devon. BULL...Colchester.
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casalguidi
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 11918
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Glynis
It really was quite common for illegitimate persons to give their grandfather or uncle or older brother as their father on a marriage certificate. It saved the embarassment of admitting that they were illegitimate. I have come across this many times and I think this far more likely than the scenario that you are contemplating. Do you not think that if he was born out of incest that a) he wouldn't have known about it or b) if he did know about it he certainly wouldn't have admitted it!
Casalguidi
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Arquebus
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 270
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And you think we haven't thought about it? ? It is driving me nuts! (there's a joke about that)
.....but when you have a census in 1871 that shows Thomas with his mother as Harriet Swales 'Unmarried'............as to whether he knew or not who knows?
He certainly named his father as William Swales (deceased) when he got married in 1882.
It also looks as though his Uncle Fred had a son called William...who is roughly same age as Thomas.....and have to consider that Fred who was older than Harriet named his son after his father.
We have no doubt that Thomas' father was a William and we could accept Brown Smith Jones or whatever, was the real surname.....if it were not for the fact there is no sign of an appropriate candidate anywhere, but there is a suitably aged older William that died roughly 6 years after Thomas was born.
Thomas was possibly christened in St Crux Church which we gather used to be in
The Shambles in York (demolished 1881) and this was supposed to be quite an important church being right on the doorstep of the Minster....bearing in mind they were foundry labourers (ie Poor) they went to quite an expense to have Thomas christened....yet there is no sign of a Bastardy Order which would have been the logical route had there been a Smith Brown Jones etc.
Without being rude, we are used to uncovering strange things....you should see the How/e peculiarity that Alan uncovered in his lot.
Thanks for the interest....it looks like a hol in York dunnit?
Glynis
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ENFIELD...Colchester, DEARY & DIX...Norfolk & Oz, SLOLEY / SYMONS...Fremington Devon, BAKER...Deopham Norfolk, BANTACK...Ixworth, ALLISON...Suffolk / ALLISTON / ELLISTON/E...North East Essex, HOW /HOWE...North East Essex, SWALES..York / Middlesboro,METCALFE...York, WOODS / MOLLETT / GREEN....Norwich, BRATTY...N.Ireland (Derry and Belfast), MORGAN...Bicknor / Coleford Glos. & Middlesboro. FENN / WENDEN / ROOKARD....North East Essex. SNOW...Hampstead & Devon. BULL...Colchester.
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Arquebus
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 270
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Well, it looks like it's either a trawl through the 1841 or a week in York....!
Hopefully someone will remember the post if they come across York 'Swales' by accident.
The trouble with this sort of problem is that it seems that without anything to go on you have to 'speculate with an open mind' which is almost a contradiction.....but without the speculation you don't have a start point..... then you have to speculate on all possibilities and go down each time consuming route until you hit upon the right one...if you can find it!
If it was left to pure speculation, all of us would have our Families sorted out by now.
Oh well, I guess something will turn up.
Glynis
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ENFIELD...Colchester, DEARY & DIX...Norfolk & Oz, SLOLEY / SYMONS...Fremington Devon, BAKER...Deopham Norfolk, BANTACK...Ixworth, ALLISON...Suffolk / ALLISTON / ELLISTON/E...North East Essex, HOW /HOWE...North East Essex, SWALES..York / Middlesboro,METCALFE...York, WOODS / MOLLETT / GREEN....Norwich, BRATTY...N.Ireland (Derry and Belfast), MORGAN...Bicknor / Coleford Glos. & Middlesboro. FENN / WENDEN / ROOKARD....North East Essex. SNOW...Hampstead & Devon. BULL...Colchester.
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Arquebus
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 270
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Further to my earlier posts, there is a chance that Harriet was in Walmgate York (at least that seems to be where Thomas was born. If anyone has access to 1837 census (or perhaps 1841) would they mind having a quick look to see if she exists, she was born c1827.
Thanks....any help welcome.
Glynis
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ENFIELD...Colchester, DEARY & DIX...Norfolk & Oz, SLOLEY / SYMONS...Fremington Devon, BAKER...Deopham Norfolk, BANTACK...Ixworth, ALLISON...Suffolk / ALLISTON / ELLISTON/E...North East Essex, HOW /HOWE...North East Essex, SWALES..York / Middlesboro,METCALFE...York, WOODS / MOLLETT / GREEN....Norwich, BRATTY...N.Ireland (Derry and Belfast), MORGAN...Bicknor / Coleford Glos. & Middlesboro. FENN / WENDEN / ROOKARD....North East Essex. SNOW...Hampstead & Devon. BULL...Colchester.
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