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Topic: John Thomson b1830 Newcastleton Roxburghshire (Read 438 times)
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gingerslf
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 284
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Here in 1851
Source Citation: Parish: Melrose; ED: 11; Page: 9; Line: 30; Roll: 744; Year: 1851.
Here in 1861
Source Citation: Parish: Ladhope; ED: 4; Page: 13; Line: 13; Roll: CSSCT1861_141;
1871
Source Citation: Parish: Melrose; ED: 2; Page: 1; Line: 9; Roll: CSSCT1871_180;
1881
Source Citation: Parish: Melrose; ED: 2; Page: 24; Line: 1; Roll: cssct1881_314;
Looking for his parents hopefully, wife's maiden name, marriage etc....
I have some credits left for scotlandspeople search but need a 'nudge' in the right direction as I'm still not fully familiar with using it and my Scottish geography is not up to much!
Thanks
EDIT:
Just found this:
1855 THOMSON JOHN FULTON JANE MELROSE /ROXBURGH
As their son is William Fulton Thomson b 1858 I think this is the marriage!
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gingerslf
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 284
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On the marriage certificate it gives his fathers name as Hector Hall and mothers name as Janet Thomson!!!!
Not sure what to look for in 1841/51/61...Hall or Thomson...or Hall Thomson..the family name went on as Thomson.
Can anyone help?
No luck so far.
Hector was a cattle dealer in 1855.
Found him here in 1841......Cattle Dealer, but with another wife and John who would be about 11 is not there!
Source Citation: Parish: Castleton; ED: 14; Page: 20; Line: 1110
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« Last Edit: Tuesday 14 April 09 17:34 UTC (UK) by gingerslf »
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9116
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Hi Steve 
Does the 1855 marriage for John show mother as Janet Hall m.s. Thomson? By the sounds of it it doesn't it I think.
It could well be that John's 1830 birth was illegitimate. The fact that he didn't go by the name of Hall but named Hector Hall as his father makes me think that this may be the case.
The 1841 census entry that you have found for Hector Hall is not long after his marriage to Margaret:
HECTOR HALL and MARGARET PURDOM Marriage in 13 MAR 1841 Castleton, Roxburgh
And their 1841 entry:
Archibald Purdom, mason, 57
Isable Purdom 35
Gedeon Purdom 16
Hector Hall 45, cattle dealer, b. England
Margaret Hall 25
Margaret Hall 7 Months
Thomas Scot 16 Months
Address: Village Of Newcastleton, Castleton
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9116
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Possibility for Hector's birth:
HECTOR HALL Birth on 20 DEC 1791/ Christening: 15 JAN 1792 Presbyterian, Falstone, Northumberland
Parents:JOHN HALL and MARGARET
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9116
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A further John son to Hector, from 1851, everyone showing as born in Castleton, except Hector:
Hector Hall 59, drover, b. England
Margaret Hall 34
Margaret Hall 10
Mary Hall 8
Isabell Hall 6
John Hall 3
George Hall 4 Months
Address: Newcastleton
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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gingerslf
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 284
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Hi Monica...this is good stuff...it's a tree for a friend of mine...
I know I'm on the right lines because her father was called William HECTOR HALL Thomson born 1920...
I was speaking on the phone to her while you posted....
She is intrigued to know why the name Hector Hall suddenly showed up with her dad over 100 years after Hector Hall was born....perhaps there was a 100 year rule...lol
Monica...the marriage certificate just says Hector Hall and Janet Thomson...no indication that this is her maiden name.....
I looked for a marriage but could not find one..I was not suprised as Margaret seems to be alive in 1851 and 1861 AFTER John Thomson was born....
I reckon Hector was a bit of a lad on his travels as a 'drover/cattle dealer and had a woman n every port of call...lol
I can not find Janet anywhere...all I have is the mention of her on the marraige certificate, I assume she is born Scotland but only a rough idea of when...
Can't find her in 1851 or 61...perhaps she died young!
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9116
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Certainly looks like you may have found the reason why
No more clues regarding parents from the names of John and Jane's children:
1. GEORGE THOMPSON Birth: 24 JUN 1855 Melrose
2. WILLIAM FULTON THOMSON Birth: 15 AUG 1857 Ladhope
3. JAMES THOMSON Birth: 26 MAY 1860 Ladhope
4. JANE RENTON THOMSON Birth: 25 OCT 1862 Ladhope
5. JOHN THOMSON Birth: 14 AUG 1865 Ladhope
6. HENRY THOMSON Birth: 05 AUG 1868 Ladhope
7. JANET THOMSON Birth: 14 JAN 1873 Ladhope
Steve, may be hard for you to properly verify mother's details. Hector Hall looks to have died in Castleton in 1875 going by general searches on SP.
The only document I can think think of at this stage that might provide more information is perhaps John's death entry, which might include a possible married name for Janet his mother.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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gingerslf
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 284
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edited post above while you were posting.
The Renton and Fulton names come from John Thomsons wife family line.
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9116
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Making lots of assumptions here! Could be anyone of a number of scenarios:
I think Janet's maiden name is Thomson, it's the way these documents were written in Scotland. If she had been married, she would show as Hall, m.s. Thomson.
Janet could have married after she gave birth to John. Hard to know though without some clues as to a married name and we don't have any at this stage.
There may be clues in the names John used for his children (maternal grandparents for example).
I did see this entry in 1841 and wonder whether it may be John:
Adam Mair 50, Woolen H L W
Helen Mair 50
George Mundell 60, Shoem J, b. Scotland
John Hall 11
James Blacklock 5
Eliza Scott 4
Address: Village Of Newcastleton
If it is John, he looks to have reverted back to his mother's surname in later years (not unusual, can go either way with illegitimate births if we are on the right track)
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9116
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Hector and Janet had more children than John 
ISABELLA THOMSON HALL Christening: 11 JUN 1829 Castleton, Roxburgh
Parents:HECTOR HALL and JANET THOMSON
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9116
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Following a trail here...  What were the names of Jane Fulton's parents?
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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gingerslf
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 284
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Jane Fulton abt 1834 (that's a rough guess)
Eyemouth, Berwick upon Tweed Berwickshire
parents Wiliam Fulton and Jane Renton.
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9116
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I was hoping you would say that  So, why would they call their first born George....I have an idea in the absence of fact at this stage!
There is a marriage showing for a George Murray and Janet Thomson on IGI on 30 MAY 1840 Castleton, Roxburgh.
This is the family in 1841:
Walter Scott 72, farmer
George Murray 33, agr. lab
Janet Murray 35, b. Scotland
George Murray 4
Barbara Murray 8 Months
Address: Village Of Newcastleton
And in 1851:
George Murray 43
Janet Murray 40, b. Westerkirk, Dumfries
George Murray 13
Barbara Murray 10, b. Westerkirk, Dumfries
Helen Murray 7
Margaret Murray 6
Address: Village Of Newcastleton
I am wondering if this could be mother Janet now married?
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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gingerslf
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 284
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I was hoping you would say that So, why would they call their first born George....I have an idea in the absence of fact at this stage! There is a marriage showing for a George Murray and Janet Thomson on IGI on 30 MAY 1840 Castleton, Roxburgh. This is the family in 1841: Walter Scott 72, farmer George Murray 33, agr. lab Janet Murray 35, b. Scotland George Murray 4 Barbara Murray 8 Months Address: Village Of Newcastleton And in 1851: George Murray 43 Janet Murray 40, b. Westerkirk, Dumfries George Murray 13 Barbara Murray 10, b. Westerkirk, Dumfries Helen Murray 7 Margaret Murray 6 Address: Village Of Newcastleton I am wondering if this could be mother Janet now married?
If it is, it would explain why I/we can't find Janet Thomson later on!
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9116
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I lose track of George and Janet after the 1861 census in Newcastleton  Can't see a likely death for Janet on SP at this stage, if she went on to die in England...  I was hoping to find her death and mother's name showing as Isabella!
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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