Ruskie
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4720
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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This is a bit of an epic so apologies in advance. This family has me really confused. Can anyone please help?
This is what I have so far:
1841
Nittyholm, Canonbie
William Bell 42 coal miner
Jessie Bell 29
James Bell 11
Jannet Bell 5
Frances Elliot 6
Wilhelmina Elliot 4
1851
Rowanburn, Canonbie
William Bell 51 coal miner b Canonbie
JessieBell wife 41 b Middlebie
James Bell son 21 coalminer b Canonbie
James Elliot 20 stepson coalminer b Canonbie
Frances Elliot 15 stepdaur b Canonbie
Jannet Bell 14 daur b Canonbie
Mina Elliot 13 stepdaur b Canonbie (Wilhelmina)
Isabella Bell 8 daur do
Margaret Bell 6 daur do
Grace Bell 5 daur do
Helen Bell 2 daur do
1861
Rowanburn, Canonbie
William Bell 62coalminer b Canonbie
Jessie Bell 50 b Middlebie Dumfriesshire
Grery Bell 15 gen servt b Canonbie (probably mistranscription of Grace)
Hellen Bell 12 scholar
Agnes Bell 9
+ lodgers
William Bell = Jessie Brown 2 Oct 1840 Canonbie
1863 - William Bell dies in Rowanburn - father is Francis Bell, mother Jannet Brocklebank. IGI has this surname as Brockbank. A son John Bell was present at death of William but I have no record of John.
1871 census - Jessie Bell is in Durham with daughter Ellen (I don’t know who she is) and son in law Robert Waken or Watson (as transcribed by Ancestry).
1881 census - Jessie is in Botchergate Carlisle with daur Helen
1881 - Jessie dies in Carlisle
William Bell b 8 Jul 1798 Andrewsknowes, Canonbie. I have some of the Bell Andrewsknowes family through the censuses.
I have no birth date for Jessie Brown.
There is time for both to have been married before 1840. I have some wild theories but do not want to confuse the issue by adding these.
Can anyone help to unravel this family and find William and Jessie’s previous relationships?
Any assistance gratefully received. Many thanks.
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« Last Edit: Thursday 16 April 09 12:45 UTC (UK) by Ruskie »
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24560
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi Ruskie
First thoughts-
It looks as if Jessie was previously married to an Elliot. Is there anything on the IGI or SP for the baptisms of Frances and Wilhelmina?
Does William's death cert list his previous spouses?
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24560
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Just been looking for the Elliot relationship in Canonbie on the IGI . No sign of the two girls but there was a Francis Elliot listed as father (of a Catherine) in Canonbie in 1835 and later (1853), a Wilhelmina Elliot, father David Elliot.
Also - a very long shot - a marriage of a Janet Brown to a George Elliot, 6 August 1834, Yester, East Lothian. If they were coal mining families, they might well have moved around.
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24560
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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The relevant IGI Middlebie batch is one of those female only as far as I can see. There are only 5 listed, including the baptism of a Jane Brown on 12 Feb 1815 - a bit later than one would expect from Jessie's age. Parents - John Brown and Marion Bell.
In my experience Jessie is more likely to be a diminutive/alternative to Janet rather than Jane but it's worth following up.
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24560
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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found the death of Fanny Elliot - 23 March 1921 - Rowanburn, Canonbie. Aged 86. Widow of John Murray, coal miner.
Parents - John Elliot, coal miner, deceased and Jessie Elliot m.s. Brown, deceased.
Informant - A Murray, son.
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24560
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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and this looks like the death of James Bell, b.c. 1830 on censuses:
5 March 1894, Rowanburn, Canonbie
James Bell, collier, widower of Sarah Little. Aged 63
Parents - William Bell, collier, deceased and Minnie Bell, m.s. Armstrong, deceased.
Informant - Joseph Bell, son
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24560
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Ooops - thought I'd said that about an hour ago in one of my messages but it doesn't look like it - I kept getting error messages while Roots was slow.
Anyway, we have William and Jessie's previous partners
Gadget
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Ruskie
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4720
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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oooooo! How exciting! Puzzle solved - many thanks Gadget. 
Thanks for your input too Andy. I initially thought that Ellen = Helen, however on the 1881 census Jessie appears to be living with unmarried 36 year old daughter Helen Bell, so I thought that Ellen must be a different daughter. I will investigate this further.
Gadget, I also thought that Jessie = Janet, but she appears to be Jessie her entire life and dies as Jessie in 1881 age 71, indicating a date of birth of approx 1810. 
Re the death of James Bell b 1830, parents William Bell collier and Minnie Armstrong. I had these 2 marriages (which I didn't mention in my question as I thought they might complicate matters):
William Bell = Wilhemina Armstrong 1 Jul 1820 Canonbie (IGI extracted)
or 14 Jul 1820 (IGI submitted)
AND
William Bell = Margaret Armstrong Mar 1821 Canonbie (IGI extracted) or 2 Mar 1821 (IGI submitted) 
I looked up "Minnie" here: http://www.behindthename.com/nm/m4.php and it says Minnie = Wilhelmina. The William Bell marriage to Wilhelmina stood out like a sore thumb due to one of William's daughters being called Wilhelmina ... but he also has a daughter Margaret (though with Jessie), so i was a bit befuddled. So that clears that up nicely. 
And now we know that Jessie Brown was married to John Elliot - Wonderful.
Off on a slight tangent here ... As our Scottish Jessie Brown/Elliot/Bell thoughtlessly died in Carlisle England in 1881, and her death certificate will not give us the information we need, is there any other way that we can discover who her parents were?
Thanks ever so much for solving my puzzle Gadget. Your time and trouble is very much appreciated. I am working with one of William and Jessie's descendants on this line and she was so confused she has put them aside for a while. She will be thrilled that we now have an answer.
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24560
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi Ruskie
Have you got the 1940 marriage certin Carlisle? That should at least give her father's name and occupation.
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24560
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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IGI submitted entries (3) have them marrying in Canonbie in 1840 - haven't found them on the BMDs for Carlisle yet
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24560
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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On SP as marrying 2 Oct 1840 in Canonbie. I'll see if it has any other details.
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Ruskie
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4720
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Gadget, I'm signed out of Rootschat for a few minutes, but am back now There are a number of submitted records on the IGI for this family.
Sorry Gadget, I messed up by saying William and Jessie married in Carlisle.  It should be Canonbie. I will amend the error.
Not too important in the quest, but just for completeness, I've found Ellen (Watson) and family still in Durham in the 1881 census. She is a now a widow.
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Ruskie
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4720
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I don't believe there are any further details on the Bell/Brown marriage on SP.
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24560
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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The Ellen is a bit of a puzzle if she's not Hel(l)en
No info on the marriage entry. Is it worth trying to work out something from the children's names - or looking at Middlebie Browns having children around 1800-1820. Not a lot on the IGI for there as I found earlier 
Gadget
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