Ruskie
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4720
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks for all your help Gadget. I'll do as you suggest. 
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24556
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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SP has the following Bro*n* couples having children in Midlebie 1800-1820
David Brown and Agness/Nancy Irving - Gavin Mary and Nanny (1809, 1811 and 1813 - so that rules out having a Jessie at the probable time)
Walter Brown and Grace Camble (sic) - Hellen
John Brown and Marion Bell - Jane
Richard Brown and Betty Moffat - John
Gadget
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Ruskie
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4720
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks for those names Gadget. IGI also has an Agness with father William in 1793 (maybe a bit early  )
Odd thing is, out of all those names the only one Jessie used for her (known) children is Grace, and perhaps Agnes (if Agnes = Nancy in this case).
[I also just realised that I made a mistake about the Wilhelmina connection. I got confused (again ) - it was John and Jessie (Brown) Elliot who named their daughter Wilhelmina. And William Bell married a Wilhelmina Armstrong ... got the sides of the family mixed up.]
We don't have a marriage date for John Elliot and Jessie Brown's marriage, but Elliot children from census are:
James 1831
Frances 1836
Wilhelmina 1838
[Jessie married William in 1840] - children are:
Isabella 1843
Margaret 1845
Grace 1846
Helen 1849
Agnes 1852
So many girls! .... but looking at the names perhaps a Frances might be Jessie's mother?
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24556
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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and Wiliam Bell and Wilhelmina Armstrong's are:
1820 - John
1822 - Francis
(both IGI)
circa 1830 - from Census - James
With his parents as Francis and Jan(n)et
With Francis/Frances on both sides, I'm just wondering if there was a family link - i.e. Marion Bell/John Brown
GAdget
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Ruskie
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4720
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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For William and Wilhelmina I also have Jannet b 1833 from the 41 and 51 censuses.
I have just searched the 1841 for surname Brown, living Middlebie, born Dumfriesshire.
There is a Francis (girl  ) age 14 living with some Bells, a Moffat plus others.
Now I think I'm trying to make things fit where perhaps they don't.
You may be right about that family link.
PS. Yes, William's parents are Francis Bell and Jannet Brock(le)bank.  I have 70 year old Jannet b 1771 on the 1841 census living at AndrewsKnows with William's brother John. I think she must have died between the 41 and 51 census. I have not yet traced William's father Francis.
Thanks again for your help Gadget.
Thanks to you too Walter. I will have a look at the link. 
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Ruskie
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4720
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Walter,
I've had a chance to look at the link you gave. I've definitely found the death of William Bell (though age is given as 65 whereas it should be 63 - easy to mistake a 3 and a 5). I've also found a few other possible mentions of probable people, so it's all very interesting. Thanks for that. I'm putting it in my favourites.
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andycand
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1235
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
In the 1881 census Ellen WATSON (nee Bell) is a widow still living in Durham, her son John age 17 is Head of Household, Jessie, 13, William 12, and Samuel 10 all fit with the 1871 census. There is also another child Grace age 3.
Ellen Watson (nee Bell), John, Jessie and William are all shown as being born Canonbie, Dumfries.
John Watson is on the IGI born 4th May 1863, Canonbie, father Robert Watson, mother Ellen Bell. (source Statutory Register)
I haven't found a marriage yet between Robert Watson & Ellen Bell.
I'm wondering if the daughter with Jessie in Cumberland in 1881 is in fact Grace and not Helen.
Andy
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Ruskie
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4720
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Andy. I didn't consider the possibility that Helen might be Grace in 1881. I suppose anything is possible ... 
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andycand
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1235
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Ruskie
Do you have a copy of the death certificate for Jessie Bell? If so, who was the informant? Also, is there anything to confirm she is the right Jessie Bell?
I found some of the Watson children in Durham still in 1891 census with William age 22 now head, also in the household are siblings Samuel & Grace as well as sister Frances (Todd) and her daughter Elizabeth age 1. There is also an Agnes E Watson age 5 who is shown as daughter but some of the relationships are wrong (brother Samuel age 20 is shown as son) so I don't know who she belongs to.
Andy
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Ruskie
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4720
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Ummm, I see what you mean about the 1891 census. Very strange relationships.
No, I do not have the d/c for Jessie Bell who died 3rd 1/4 1881, age 71, Carlisle, 10b 262. I only discovered this death a day or two ago and as the English d/c's do not give much information, I have not gone ahead and ordered it. It was also the ony Jessie Bell death on FreeBMD, her age is right and she was last seen living in Carlisle.
I understand your thinking about confirming this is the correct Jessie possibly via the informant on the d/c.
There are a couple of reasons that I believe I am following the correct Jessie Bell.
Her husband died in 1863 so she would (probably ) be a widow in 1871. I could not find her on the Scottish census in 1871. I originally thought she had died between 1861 and 1871. SP has a few J Bell deaths but none of these were J for Jessie and districts were wrong (as far as I could be sure).
On a whim I searched for her in England and found her in 1871 in Sunnyside, Crook and Billy Row, Durham. Jessie's daughter Agnes and her husband also lived in Sunnyside, Crook and Billy Row in 1871.
Jessie is in Botchergate Carlisle in 1881. Her daughter Agnes also later lived in Botchergate with her family.
Possibly coincidences, but it all makes sense and seems to fit in quite well ....
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