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Topic: Ga(r)stick (Read 290 times)
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ottobottle
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 61
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Ga(r)stick
« on: Thursday 16 April 09 14:14 BST (UK) » |
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Hi all,
Has anybody researching Norfolk census records come across the placename 'Gastick' or 'Garstick'? I'm researching a family who I believe may be my great great great grandparents, and the wife on both the 1851 and 1861 censuses is detailed as being from Gastick or Garstick. I have assumed that this may be Guestwick in Norfolk but the fact it appears twice ten years apart makes me wonder if this is a correct assumption.
For an example, look for Mary Smith aged 58 in 1851 and living at Gates Yard, St John de Sepulchre parish, Norwich (HO 107/1814 p. 27). In 1861 she is Rose M Smith, 67, living in Mariner's Lane, St John de Sepulchre, Norwich (RG 9/1215 p.26)
If anyone does check out these pages, what do you think of her husband Samuel's birthplace - Bungay, Suffolk in 1851 but then what looks like Sulterton, Norfolk in 1861. Bungay's easy but I'm unsure where Sulterton is or even if that is what it says!
Many thanks,
Mark
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silvery
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2243
information Crown Copyright, from www.nation
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1861 ref
RG9, piece 1215, folio 104, page 26
Which name are you looking for Rose or Mary? How have you got back to here perhaps we can have another look.
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ottobottle
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 61
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi all,
Thanks for the replies so far.
To explain how I got here, my great great grandmother was Rose Mary Lake, born in around 1857 in Islington, London. From her birth certificate, I know her father was Samuel Lake, a bricklayer. This led me to the 1861 census where I found Samuel aged 48 with daughter Rose M Lake aged 4, born in London. So that all fitted well.
Samuel's wife is Sarah and, very conveniently, they're living with her parents, Samuel Smith and his wife Rose M.
I noticed that the neighbours were a Michael Smith on one side and Elizabeth Custance on the other, who is living with her niece Harriett Lake. I traced Elizabeth's marriage to Walter Custance in 1849 and that revealed her maiden name was Smith.
I then went back to the 1841 census and found the following:
(HO107/789/4 Folio 32 Page 11)
Samuel Smith 40 Ag Lab
Mary Smith 45
Michael Smith 18
Harriett Smith 15
Maria Smith 14
Elizabeth Smith 11
Rebecca Smith 9
There were Michael and Elizabeth. Sarah and Samuel Lake were nearby and it seemed reasonable to conclude she was the eldest daughter.
Moving on to 1851, we find:
(HO107/1814 Folio 344 Page 27)
Samuel Smith 50 Weaver, born Bungay, Suffolk
Mary Smith 58
Rebecca Smith 19
Rose Smith 1 Mo
Henry Howard 23
Maria Howard 23
Robert Howard 4
Mary Ann Middleton 18
Although the ages are different, and Samuel's occupation and place of birth differs from 1861, the children Rebecca and Maria (now married) fit (Rose aged 1 month and described as a daughter I am assuming is either illegitimate or an error on the census).
Since posting earlier, I've found Samuel and Rose M Smith on the 1871 census, which has:
(RG10/1814 Folio 113 Page: 37)
Samuel Smith 81 Labourer born Sutton, Suffolk
Rose Mary Smith 82 born Guestwick, Norfolk
James Muirhead 21 Boarder
Rosina Muirhead 20 Boarder
Rosina Muirhead 2 Boarder
So I am sure these are the same people - Guestwick is now spelt correctly and Rose's middle name is definitely Mary.
I'm still puzzled at to why Samuel Smith's place of birth varies so much (Sutton or Bungay, which are in different parts of Suffolk). I also just spotted another Samuel Smith living in St John Sepulchre in 1851 and 1861, married to Rachel, who is a weaver and wonder if the enumerator somehow put weaver down as both their occupations. (See HO107/1814 Folio 347 Page 32). Then again, is it impossible that my Samuel was essentially a labourer who in 1851 was doing some weaving?
The final mystery is that my great great grandmother Rose Mary Lake is at an orphanage in Norwich in 1871 and I can't find out what happened to Samuel and Sarah Lake or the other children. Not yet anyway!
Thanks to anyone taking the time to read this and to help me out, it is much appreciated.
Regards,
Mark
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« Last Edit: Friday 24 April 09 13:12 BST (UK) by copyright_editor »
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Grove(s) - Sussex/Derbys/S. Yorks
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ottobottle
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 61
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Sisterjane,
Thanks ever so much for putting in the time on this, much appreciated. I've been looking through your comments this morning.
To deal with them in order:
1.
>>This could be Sarah Lake 64 Widow living with her daughter Sarah..1881 Cencus..RG11/1362/116/78
Yes, I think you're right. I spotted this the other day but discounted it. Looking at it again, Sarah Stacey's age matches up and Harriett Riches matches up with daughter Harriett.
2.
>>Sarah Bake 54 head Widow b Norwich Charwoman
>>Ann Youngs 52 boarder b "
Although they've transcribed this as Bake I think it actually says Bales (I've seen this name elsewhere in the Norfolk censuses). I then found a document sent to me ages ago by a distant cousin who is descended from the same family. She says that Samuel and Sarah's son Samuel (born 1843) married Priscilla Bream in 1869 and they had a son, another Samuel, in the same year. She mentions him living with his grandmother in 1871. A search for Priscilla Lake in 1871 found her fairly easily but her husband and son are not with her. I have spent a good hour hunting through pages and pages and eventually found Sarah Lake 55 and Samuel Lake aged 1 fairly close to Priscilla. They mistranscribed as 'Loke' on Ancestry.co.uk. Sarah is described as grandmother so I think this is her. The reference is RG10/1817 88 15. They are living in St Peter Mancroft, Norwich and Sarah is a widow. This fits with your next find:
3
>>Samuel Lake
>>Death 1863
>>Dec Q-Norwich
>>Vol 4b-Page 68
>>Samuel Lake
>>Death 1863
>>Dec Q-Norwich
>>Vol 4b-Page 99
Again, spot on I think, one of these seems likely to be him.
4
>>I think this is Samuel Lake(son of Samuel and Sarah
>>I notice a Harriett age 12 (sister) and Betsey 18(sister) living with him who I think is the Harriet(niece) in 1861 and I think Betsey is the Rose E Lake from the 1861
>>1871 Cencus
>>RG10/274/58/9
I am not sure this is right to be honest. I know Samuel wasn't from Swaffham and married Priscilla rather than Eliza (not that you were to know that!) so although the sisters fit I don't think this is right. Quite where Samuel is in 1871 I don't know yet.
The best part of this research is that it has shown that Sarah survived beyond 1871 and that leads me to a big question. Why in 1871 is her daughter Rose Mary Lake (born 1857) at an orphanage (the Girls Hospital School) in Norwich? If Sarah couldn't support her would it be normal for her to go to such a place even though she had a living parent?
Regards,
Mark
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Left - Warks(Birmingham)/Staffs
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Brittain - Warks(Birmingham)/Staffs
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Hawkins - Leicestershire
Woodward - Staffs
Grove(s) - Sussex/Derbys/S. Yorks
Chambers - Notts/Derbys
Oliver - Sussex
Marsh - Staffs/S. Yorks
Willetts - Worcs
Ford - Staffs/London
Lake - Norfolk
Smith - Norfolk
Verney - Bucks/London
Shelton - Bucks
Roads - Bucks
Love - Isle Of Wight
Attrill - Isle Of Wight
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silvery
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2243
information Crown Copyright, from www.nation
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It's very likely that the daughter would be in a school/orphanage/workhouse. A woman without a man's income in the household would find it very difficult to support a child/family, and is one reason why they re-marry so quickly after the husband dies. Work for women was of the very lowly paid kind, such as washerwoman, char, dressmaker etc.
I know of people, living now, who were in a 'boarding school' in the 1940s because the father was unable to work due to injury and had left home and the mother could not support all of the nine children. They were there for about 4 years.
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