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Topic: Ringwood Churches and Parish Records (Read 1241 times)
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dkendall
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Sarah (and others!)
We had a great time in Ringwood. We stayed in Poulner, probably within a half-mile of where my gg-grandmother was born, and visited the Meeting House, the library, the cemetery, and the Bisterne churchyard. We also found Crow Cottages, which are still standing. We also went to Winchester, where I looked through the various parish records and ordered a lot of photographic copies.
I'm still sifting through all the information I found. Thanks very much to everyone who provided invaluable tips and advice!
Regards,
David
P.S. Sarah - do you know who Florence's parents were?
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neilcarp
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 24
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi' Stephen and Sarah Kendall were my great-great-great grand parents my link to them being throu there son Thomas born 1824 his son Frank 1865- 1899 was my great grandfather and his daughter Hilda Alice 1897-1981 my grandmother. Most of my information comes throu the census records from 1841 onwards' the 1841 census shows Stephen and Sarah in Sandford (Ringwood) with there large family - the 1881 census shows widow Sarah age 84 living at no.1 crow cottages or the Barracks with son John. My searching has not gone back further than Stephens mother and father - Thomas and Amy and i do not know there births or death dates only there marriage date of 28th 1785. I also have no information on Amy Kendells (nee Hatcher) parents. My great-grandfathers (Frank) great grandmother was also a Kendall (Sarah Harder nee-Kendell) born in sandford in 1776 but i have yet to link her to Thomas but it is possible they were brother and sister! ohh the knots you tie yourself up in when you start your family tree! Hope this is usefull if you require anything more i have all the census returns or if you have progressed further than myself please share. 
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dkendall
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Neil,
Pleased make your acquaintance. We are (probably) 4th cousins! John of Stephen and Sarah was my GG-GF.
I say probably because there's a little mystery around the first three sons of Steven and Sarah.
Thomas (b.1821) was recorded in the 1841 census with Stephen and Sarah. But there's only one Thomas in the Ringwood parish register (baptised 22 April 1821), and his parents were recorded as Thomas and Sarah.
There's also a son Henry (b.1818) in the 1841 census with Stephen and Sarah. His (apparent) baptism record says his parents were Stephen and Mary.
Stephen Kendall and Sarah Head married 25 May 1817 in Ibsley. There's no record of the marriage of a Thomas Kendall and Sarah or Stephen Kendall and Mary anywhere in Hampshire.
The Ringwood parish register also records the 31 December 1820 baptism of Edwin, son of Stephen and Sarah, age one year. He didn't appear with the family in the 1841 census, but there was an Edwin who married in 1848 and appeared in the census (with the right age) in later years. His marriage record says his father was William.
There was a William Kendall, b.1794 in Sandford who married Mary Mist in 1819 in Ibsley. He was probably Stephen's brother (and lots of online family trees claim he was) but I have found no record of his baptism.
I have a copy of the death record for Thomas Kendall who died 1847 in Sandford age 86 (born 1761). I suspect that this was the same Thomas who lived next-door to Stephen in 1841. That census said he was 60 (b.1781), rather than 80, but I think it was a transcription error. (Many online family trees include Thomas 1781 as a son of Thomas and Amy.)
The Hampshire burial index has an entry for Emma Kendall who died in 1837 aged 76 (b.1761). She's the closest I've found to a match for Amy.
As you say... the knots! To be honest, the missing and conflicting records have me stumped 
Regards,
David
P.S. Where did you find the record of Sarah Harder nee-Kendell born in sandford in 1776?
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neilcarp
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 24
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi David
Great to meet you too' and thanks for some of the extra dates you have given me' I think as far as the conflicting dates and names go you have to "Go with the flow" a bit' records in pre- victorian England are suspect at best when a lot of people cant read or write- Irelands even worse! a few of my distant ancestors came from southern ireland and its like finding a needle in a haystack!.
I found Family Search . org (The church of the latter day saints) usefull and found the James Harder and Sarah Kendalls details there (marriage 1787).
I was born in Christchurch but my parents moved to Ringwood when i was small and i grew up there but never felt like a local so it was quite a shock to find so many connections, as a child i went to school near the area called the quomp where the cottage industries flourished once and i never realised i was walking in there footsteps.
I still live within half an hour of Sandford/Ringwood and have enjoyed walking our ancestors paths during my research. Its not been so easy for my other strands of family as my mother was born in London and my Fathers male line came from Somerset and before that Ireland.
I hope you enjoyed your stay in Hampshire and its great to think someone else is trawling through the mire to find the facts.
I gather your not from the UK where do you live?.
Best wishes
Neil.
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neilcarp
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 24
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have found that birth dates and baptism dates are sometimes mixed up so an individual might be older than stated and yes i agree its the checking of information and perhaps copying of details which cannot be checked by the illiterate provider that may lead to mistakes.
I have also been baffled by birth and baptism dates to my family connection to the Shave family of Ringwood/Christchurch who i was informed by an American contact were involved in the Newfoundland fishing trade of the 1700's, apparently the familys would not baptise there children during long lay-offs in Newfoundland and would baptise them on there return sometimes years later.
Regards Neil.
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dkendall
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have a (usually reliable) transcription which gives the bride of this marriage as Mary Kindle. I'll accept Kindle as a variant of Kendall, but Mary rather than Sarah ? I'd be cautious until the original could be checked.
When I was in Winchester earlier this year, I checked the original of the 1821 baptism of Thomas Kendle (22M84 PR5 Ringwood C 1813-1838), and his parents were indeed recorded as Thomas and Sarah, rather than Stephen and Sarah.
Yet we know that on census night in 1841, Thomas Kindell (age 20) lived with Stephen and Sarah (although that census didn't record relationships) and nowhere else. We also know that there's no record of the marriage of a Thomas Kendall (or variations) and a Sarah in Hampshire.
And, of course, "Thomas of Thomas" would be an easy mistake to make.
On the other hand, there are IGI records (albeit submitted) that say Thomas was born 15 March 1820 and died 11 April 1899. These dates are supported by the FreeBMD death entry (1899 Q2 Christchurch 2b 416) which gives his age at death as 79 (i.e.,1820).
This conflicts with the 31 December 1820 baptism of Edwin (of Stephen and Sarah). If Thomas was indeed born in March 1820, why would they wait until April 1821 to baptise him, while baptising Edwin in the meantime?
Also, as I mentioned, Edwin's marriage record says his father was William. William married Mary Mist in Oct 1819, so Edwin's 1820 birth is consistent. William's eldest recoded son was William Jr. bap 14 Oct 1821. I would expect that his first son would be his namesake.
It seems to me that either (some of) the parish records around 1818-1821 were scrambled, or that they were full of holes, with marriages, births and deaths not recorded.
Still, if I ever get back to Winchester, I think I'll take a look at the fiche for the baptism of Henry and the baptism and marriage of Edwin. You never know.
Regards,
David
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dkendall
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have a (usually reliable) transcription which gives the bride of this marriage as Mary Kindle.
I've compiled a database of every Kendall (and spouse) I could find in the Ringwood and nearby parish records, the GRO BMD index, the IGI (to some extent), and the Hampshire Genealogical Society's CD collection. I have over 400 individuals from about 1730 to about 1911 or so.
According to the HGS marriage index, James Harder married Mary Kindle 24 Dec 1787 in Ringwood.
I had taken her to be "Mary Harder, wife of James" who died 15 Feb 1818 age 50 (abt 1768) in Ringwood (in the HGS burial index).
I'd say that these two references to Mary trump the IGI mention of Sarah 
The only Ringwood parish baptism record for a Mary Kendall of that vintage was 22 Feb 1764 to George Kindle and Mary Peckham.
Incidentally, George and Mary were married 2 Feb 1756 in Sopley. The Ringwood parish record lists three sons "of George" between 30 Nov 1756 and 30 Jan 1760, then Mary in 1764 and three later sons "of George and Mary". I wonder if our GGGG-GF Thomas, who was quite possibly born in 1761, was a son of George...
Regards,
David
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neilcarp
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 24
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I agree it has to be Mary Kindle not Sarah and it matches the marriage dates also there son John Harder 1795-1845 named his first born daughter Mary 1826-1897 (wife of Thomas Kendell) and as Nell said my birth date for Sarah/Mary was too late 1768 is much better.
Im totally confused by Thomas im sure he is Stephen and Sarahs son he doesnt seem to appear as anybodys else's son or am i missing something? i quess when i saw him on the 1841 census i just took it for granted! could there be a dual christian name thing going on' My great-g-g grandfather on my mothers side could'nt make his mind up between Josiah and Joseph listing both over three times! My own first name is Christopher but since a small child everyone has called me by my second christian name Neil which can confuse so many as all documents from passport to bank details are in my full name.
Regarding the Ringwood Kendles i remember a few at school and my father says he can remember some when we lived there but of course prior to my research we always thought that our Kendle line came from the Avon/Sopley area.
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neilcarp
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 24
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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During my research i was able to confirm a family tragedy that had been half known in the family for generations my Great grandfather Frank Kendel born 6th july 1865 to Thomas and Mary (ann) Kendel, died at the age of only 34 on the 16th of December 1899, the legend said that he had been shot while poaching by a game keeper.
My father did not know when this event happened' after my research on census returns and obtaining the death certificate we could confirm that it was a shotgun wound however the certificate stated that it was accidentally inflicted! this may have been to cover up the crime or to save the widow and family the embarrasment of a spouse poaching -who knows things were very different in Victorian Britain but you have to feel sorry for my Great-grandmother left with four children (my grandmother was only 2 years old).
The death certificate even mentioned the copse where it happened which is still on private land this information came to light many years after my Grandmothers and her siblings deaths which is probably just as well.
I have yet to search the local paper archives for the tragic death if even one still exists.
Regards Neil.
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Little Nell
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 7264
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Neil,
If you search the British Library Newspapers site (http://newspapers.bl.uk/blcs/) (unfortunately not free, £6.99 for a 24 hour search period and view up to 100 articles), there is a report which appears in the Belfast Newsletter of 19 Dec 1899 about Frank Kendall's death. From the snippet view of the article, there seems to have been a number of others involved in the same incident, including the gamekeepers who tried to take the loaded shotgun from him. But that's all I could read or guess at from what I could see.
Nell
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neilcarp
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 24
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you i will definately look that up.
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neilcarp
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 24
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks again for the Archive newspaper web- site i was rewarded with two sections one in the Belfast newsletter and the other in The Illustrated police news.
It sounds like a sorry affair with six people involved and a very sad end.
Is it possible to search Archive police records is there a time lock on such records?.
I have tried to access the local paper (Christchurch times) for a on-line archive but to no avail but i believe they may be on veiw at the local library.
Regards
Neil.
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