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Topic: Swifts of Wolverhampton dead end?-updated, the plot thickens! (Read 2081 times)
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3602
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I did have a quick look for them but no success. There may be bastardy bonds which would name their father at the archives.
I did find some more children for Humphrey & Martha
Samuel Tomlins son of Humphrey & Martha bp 14/4/1805 Meole Brace
John Tomlins bp 19/7/1807 IGI batch P016071
Martha was buried aged 40 18/6/1819 Meole Brace which goes well with the baptism of Martha Morris 5/3/1780 dau of Samuel & Martha in Meole Brace
Possible marriage for Humphrey, their eldest, to Sarah Griffiths 22/9/1829 St Julian's Shrewsbury IGI batch M037432 and burial of Humphrey 1/6/1838 aged 35 at St Julian's.
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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kneller1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 83
My gt grandfather and Gt Grandmother
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wow, thank you for this wealth of information. I have a query tho...
as there are 2 letitia downtons i suppose the 2 'bastard' children could be hers and not my Letitia?! or was there more info to point it to my letitia?
i'm currently updating all this info onto my tree and i am debating a trip to Shrewsbury tomorrow if the archives are open.
it's all so exciting! 
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Tomlin: Shropshire Tomline:shropshire Swift: Shropshire,Staffordshire Kneller: Wolverhampton,Swindon, Manchester,Germany. Howes: West Bromwich Stanton: West Bromwich Kimberley: Wombourne Price: Birmingham Palmer: Birmingham Mann:Staffordshire. And whatever else all my digging turns up  |
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3602
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I think the illegitimate children are more likely to belong to your Letitia. Someone who is later an annuitant & fundholder is less likely to be the mother. Illegitimacy was far more common than you might think especially among the rural poor, the rate was 6% in the early 19th century according to a couple of sources I've seen, dropping to 4% by the start of the 20th.
http://web.staffs.ac.uk/schools/humanities_and_soc_sciences/census/illegit.htm
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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kneller1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 83
My gt grandfather and Gt Grandmother
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So i've ordered Thos Swift and Mary Tomline wedding certificate...now it's a waiting game-could be 2 weeks! bah!  i'm soooo impatient.
I seem to of contacted 2 people with Humphrey senior and son in their trees which are descended from Humphrey seniors siblings...they have his parents listed so that's another slight break through.
I will be back once the certificate is here as i'm sure i'll be moaning about not being able to find Thos 's parents or such 
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Tomlin: Shropshire Tomline:shropshire Swift: Shropshire,Staffordshire Kneller: Wolverhampton,Swindon, Manchester,Germany. Howes: West Bromwich Stanton: West Bromwich Kimberley: Wombourne Price: Birmingham Palmer: Birmingham Mann:Staffordshire. And whatever else all my digging turns up |
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kneller1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 83
My gt grandfather and Gt Grandmother
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i have Ann Bright and Thomas Swifts wedding certificate in front of me and it states: father: thomas swift-miner.
it does NOT say deceased/died/dead of anything-did this need to be listed? this was in 1870. it states his father was a miner.
Still waiting for his mother and fathers marriage certificate.
Is there a chance that Thomas's father didn't die? and that is why on census she was listed as unmarried OR was that just an error?
confused-yet again 
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Tomlin: Shropshire Tomline:shropshire Swift: Shropshire,Staffordshire Kneller: Wolverhampton,Swindon, Manchester,Germany. Howes: West Bromwich Stanton: West Bromwich Kimberley: Wombourne Price: Birmingham Palmer: Birmingham Mann:Staffordshire. And whatever else all my digging turns up |
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deryckjohn
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 281
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You never can tell when a father will be described as deceased.
I have one marriage in 1850, both parents dead, only one is described as deceased. Another one in 1873, where the father must have been dead at least 16 years.
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3602
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I've got one from the 1840s where the father doesn't have deceased. He was, and the same vicar had buried him about 2 years previously & it's a small rural parish, population about 300.
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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kneller1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 83
My gt grandfather and Gt Grandmother
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ohhhh thos and marys' wedding certificate is here!!!!
but i'm struggling to decipher Thos's fathers name.
married April 12th 1847 in the church of Meole Brace,Salop
both of full age
both live PULLEY COMMON(?)
thos father: (looks like) SAUL...BUT it says sau (unreadable letter) : swift (why does it have : there?) he was a labourer.
And Mary is correct and father is Humphrey, so thanks so much for all your help thus far!
witnesses: james jones and martha swinnerton (i think!!)
argh!!! so yet another stumbling block had a look on An*estry and no sauls coming up there is a samuel in condover in 1841 but thos isn't on there...unless he is the Thomas swift aged 14 labourer on a farm.
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Tomlin: Shropshire Tomline:shropshire Swift: Shropshire,Staffordshire Kneller: Wolverhampton,Swindon, Manchester,Germany. Howes: West Bromwich Stanton: West Bromwich Kimberley: Wombourne Price: Birmingham Palmer: Birmingham Mann:Staffordshire. And whatever else all my digging turns up |
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kneller1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 83
My gt grandfather and Gt Grandmother
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whilst looking on the 1841 census for a Martha Swinnerton(?) i've come across a MARTHA TOMLIN born 1821.
As humphrey's first wife was called Martha i was thinking MAYBE this could be his daughter? then if i can find a link to her with him and getting married maybe that would prove that her sister was her witness at the wedding.
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Tomlin: Shropshire Tomline:shropshire Swift: Shropshire,Staffordshire Kneller: Wolverhampton,Swindon, Manchester,Germany. Howes: West Bromwich Stanton: West Bromwich Kimberley: Wombourne Price: Birmingham Palmer: Birmingham Mann:Staffordshire. And whatever else all my digging turns up |
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kneller1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 83
My gt grandfather and Gt Grandmother
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well martha died 1819 so if the dob of martha is wrong it could fit...argh going round in circles again 
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Tomlin: Shropshire Tomline:shropshire Swift: Shropshire,Staffordshire Kneller: Wolverhampton,Swindon, Manchester,Germany. Howes: West Bromwich Stanton: West Bromwich Kimberley: Wombourne Price: Birmingham Palmer: Birmingham Mann:Staffordshire. And whatever else all my digging turns up |
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kneller1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 83
My gt grandfather and Gt Grandmother
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still cannot find thomas swift c1851 bilston, birth certificate...it's officially driving me mad! any ideas? please?!
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Tomlin: Shropshire Tomline:shropshire Swift: Shropshire,Staffordshire Kneller: Wolverhampton,Swindon, Manchester,Germany. Howes: West Bromwich Stanton: West Bromwich Kimberley: Wombourne Price: Birmingham Palmer: Birmingham Mann:Staffordshire. And whatever else all my digging turns up |
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3602
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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don't forget that the ages in 1841 were rounded down, so Martha is 20 - 24 and could be a daughter of Martha.
It could be that Thomas wasn't registered. You could get Ann's birth cert instead -
Ann Swift june qtr 1848 Shrewsbury vol 118 pg 168
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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kneller1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 83
My gt grandfather and Gt Grandmother
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Anns certificate ordered, yet more waiting-i think i'm too impatient for this.
i'm thinking he may of been registered but maybe somewhere else...maybe he wasn't born in Bilston/Wolverhampton and born elsewhere...i've got 3 different certificates and none of them are him...
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Tomlin: Shropshire Tomline:shropshire Swift: Shropshire,Staffordshire Kneller: Wolverhampton,Swindon, Manchester,Germany. Howes: West Bromwich Stanton: West Bromwich Kimberley: Wombourne Price: Birmingham Palmer: Birmingham Mann:Staffordshire. And whatever else all my digging turns up |
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kneller1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 83
My gt grandfather and Gt Grandmother
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I hate it when that happens, luckily it has not happened that often on my tree:)
I can't see a good candidate for Thomas Price, there is another Thomas Price born Bradley, Bilston that is a good candidate for the Dec 1849 in Wolverhampton.
Have you posted the details from the marriage of Thomas Swift and Ann?
Deryck
just wondered whether you had a go index for this birth? i ordered another one and it wasn't him but not come across this one.
thanks
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Tomlin: Shropshire Tomline:shropshire Swift: Shropshire,Staffordshire Kneller: Wolverhampton,Swindon, Manchester,Germany. Howes: West Bromwich Stanton: West Bromwich Kimberley: Wombourne Price: Birmingham Palmer: Birmingham Mann:Staffordshire. And whatever else all my digging turns up |
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plunquet
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 64
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I wonder if the father's name might be Saml as a contraction of Samuel?
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