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Topic: Swifts of Wolverhampton dead end?-updated, the plot thickens! (Read 2200 times)
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kneller1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 83
My gt grandfather and Gt Grandmother
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I have been researching my family tree for a year and this one problem is bugging me immensely...ANY ideas or information would be greatfully received.
My gr(x3) grandfather was called Thomas Swift, he was born c1851 in Bilston, Staffordshire.
His Mother was called MARY SWIFT born c1829 in Shrewsbury(i have not been able to locate her birth details)on the 1861 census she is listed as UNMARRIED and a servant/housekeeper to a Widow named RICHARD BANKS born also in Bilston, he is a stoneminer.
Thomas and his siblings are listed as the HEADS CHILDREN(RICHARD) 
on the 1871 census Mary Swift has Married Richard Banks and the census then goes on to list Thomas and his siplings as STEP SON/ DAUR.
so i'm confused?! i've been unable to trace Mary prior to 1861 though there could be a candidate born c1827 though in Wolverhampton and working as a servant in Tettenhall on the 1851...but no children listed(obvious as her work place) but cannot find them on anything else either?
i am very very confused an it's driving me mad! any help would be so good!
thanks in advance! please save me sanity! 
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« Last Edit: Saturday 02 May 09 11:44 UTC (UK) by kneller1980 »
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Tomlin: Shropshire Tomline:shropshire Swift: Shropshire,Staffordshire Kneller: Wolverhampton,Swindon, Manchester,Germany. Howes: West Bromwich Stanton: West Bromwich Kimberley: Wombourne Price: Birmingham Palmer: Birmingham Mann:Staffordshire. And whatever else all my digging turns up  |
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CaroleW
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 16727
Barney 1993-2005
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Hi
Son Thomas was born after the 1851 census (see freebmd)
In 1851 Richard Banks was in lodgings in Willenhall with 7yr old daughter Lucy. His occ is iron miner and he is a widower.
I doubt he was Thomas's father or daughter Ann 's aged 14 in 1861 (she was b Shrewsbury) but suspect Richard aged 4 in 1861 could be his
If you look at the 1861 image - the childrens entries appear below Mary Swift. Whilst the relationship of residents should be shown as to the head of the household - I suspect the enumerator is showing them as Mary's children
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lizdb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9414
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Here is the 1861 that you have
RG9 2000 120 13
New Street Willenhall
Richard Banks 37 stonemason bn Bilston
Mary Swift 32 housekeeper bn Shrewsbury
Ann 14 dtr bn Shrewsbury
Thomas son 11 bn Bilston
Richard son 4 bn Willenhall
It could well be that the children are dtr and sons of Mary, the name immediately above them, rather than of the Head fo H/H.
I know ir is supposed to be relationship to head, but often this is not followed strictly. In this case strictly it shlud say 'none' next to the children, or 'housekeepers dtr', but often that is not the case.
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kneller1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 83
My gt grandfather and Gt Grandmother
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thank you for your response, it really has helped do you know of anyway i can find out who Thomas and Ann's father was? i presume as Mary was unmarried they were named after her and also as she wasa servant maybe the family she was working for the father could be linked there?
i'm so confused by it all thank you for takin the time to respond and so quickly.
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Tomlin: Shropshire Tomline:shropshire Swift: Shropshire,Staffordshire Kneller: Wolverhampton,Swindon, Manchester,Germany. Howes: West Bromwich Stanton: West Bromwich Kimberley: Wombourne Price: Birmingham Palmer: Birmingham Mann:Staffordshire. And whatever else all my digging turns up |
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lizdb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9414
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Have you got their birth certs?
That would be the first step.
If father is not named on the birth cert yuo could see if they were christened and if there is any mention of him there.
If nothing on either, then it is unlikely you will find him, unless he is named on any other record that has survived - unlikely.
More likely it is Mary's secret.
but not a dead end - you can still follow Mary's family.
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kneller1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 83
My gt grandfather and Gt Grandmother
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that's my next step...but to be honest i'm not a 100% sure one is thomas on the birth records as on the census(as always) his age and year of birth changes between a 6 year period! this will tur out to be costly but needs must...i just wanted to check that nobody had them in their tree.
so frustrating! but again thanks for the tips
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Tomlin: Shropshire Tomline:shropshire Swift: Shropshire,Staffordshire Kneller: Wolverhampton,Swindon, Manchester,Germany. Howes: West Bromwich Stanton: West Bromwich Kimberley: Wombourne Price: Birmingham Palmer: Birmingham Mann:Staffordshire. And whatever else all my digging turns up |
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CaroleW
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 16727
Barney 1993-2005
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Births September qtr 1846
Anna Swift Wellington 18 195
A possible only as Penkridge did not include Bilston
Births September qtr 1849
Thomas SWIFT Penkridge 17 111
Ignore - 1851 entry sighted and parents were William and Ann
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kneller1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 83
My gt grandfather and Gt Grandmother
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you see i got pointed to that thomas before-they were all boat people...now i know that's not my thomas, but i got told that the swifts in my family were boat people-and miners...so i'm sure i'll come across a connection to them.
i was looking into lucy banks and i found her as a lodger on the 1861 census at 17...and i am sure her occupation is listed as prostitute?!?!?! was this common(i mean to list it so bluntly-i know it's the oldest profession) i may of read it wrong but that's what it looks like.
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Tomlin: Shropshire Tomline:shropshire Swift: Shropshire,Staffordshire Kneller: Wolverhampton,Swindon, Manchester,Germany. Howes: West Bromwich Stanton: West Bromwich Kimberley: Wombourne Price: Birmingham Palmer: Birmingham Mann:Staffordshire. And whatever else all my digging turns up |
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CaroleW
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 16727
Barney 1993-2005
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Being kind - it could be meant to be "destitute" but I reckon you are right and it's prostitute and there were 2 other lodgers with the same occupation
Bet the landlady kept a close watch on her husband!!
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kneller1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 83
My gt grandfather and Gt Grandmother
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thought so! so that's why i didn't know about lucy...hmmmm... it seems the house was a knocking shop lol!  
as there are 2 more girls underneath listed as the same-crikey!!!
i'm going to try and find out some more tomorrow and i will pot what i find...it's getting even more interesting
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Tomlin: Shropshire Tomline:shropshire Swift: Shropshire,Staffordshire Kneller: Wolverhampton,Swindon, Manchester,Germany. Howes: West Bromwich Stanton: West Bromwich Kimberley: Wombourne Price: Birmingham Palmer: Birmingham Mann:Staffordshire. And whatever else all my digging turns up |
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kneller1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 83
My gt grandfather and Gt Grandmother
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the plot thickens further...today i obtained MARY SWIFT'S marriage Certificate to RICHARD BANKS...
it states '10th Nov 1857'
RICHARD BANKS WIDOW 'FULL' MINER BILSTON
MARY HICKSON 'FULL' WIDOW -FATHER, LEONARD BRAZIER (DEAD)
ARGH!!!!! so you can see my dilema!!! she is on the census as stated above...this is definately the same person so what do you think? Was she a SWIFT at birth and somewhere married a HICKSON, so BRAZIER wasn't her maiden name as her parents weren't married? Maybe-i am really really stuck!!!
Any help again would be super! driving me mad now!
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Tomlin: Shropshire Tomline:shropshire Swift: Shropshire,Staffordshire Kneller: Wolverhampton,Swindon, Manchester,Germany. Howes: West Bromwich Stanton: West Bromwich Kimberley: Wombourne Price: Birmingham Palmer: Birmingham Mann:Staffordshire. And whatever else all my digging turns up |
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kneller1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 83
My gt grandfather and Gt Grandmother
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also WHY on the 1861 census is she listed as unmarried if a) she was a widow and b)already married to Richard...it all doesn't make sense!!! maybe i am wrong and this isn't the right one???
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Tomlin: Shropshire Tomline:shropshire Swift: Shropshire,Staffordshire Kneller: Wolverhampton,Swindon, Manchester,Germany. Howes: West Bromwich Stanton: West Bromwich Kimberley: Wombourne Price: Birmingham Palmer: Birmingham Mann:Staffordshire. And whatever else all my digging turns up |
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kneller1980
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 83
My gt grandfather and Gt Grandmother
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damn it!!! thank you so much for you help again-i'm still not very good at this it would appear!!! i'll try and find that certificate and get back to you
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Tomlin: Shropshire Tomline:shropshire Swift: Shropshire,Staffordshire Kneller: Wolverhampton,Swindon, Manchester,Germany. Howes: West Bromwich Stanton: West Bromwich Kimberley: Wombourne Price: Birmingham Palmer: Birmingham Mann:Staffordshire. And whatever else all my digging turns up |
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deryckjohn
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 281
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Hi,
If you can't find the birth certificate for Thomas Swift you could try for Richard's which would give you some more information about mary:
Sep 1857 Swift, Richard, Wolverhampton, 6b, 417 according to FreeBMD
One interesting family in 1851 in New Street Portabello, Willenhall, that may be worth investigating:
Thomas Price, 27,
Mary Price, 26, Shrewsbury, Shropshire
Ann Price, 3, Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
Thomas Price,7 Mon, Bilston, Staffordshire
Class: HO107; Piece: 2020; Folio: 391; Page: 41
Deryck
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« Last Edit: Sunday 03 May 09 15:28 UTC (UK) by deryckjohn »
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