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Topic: Bohemia Estate Eastwood (Read 1286 times)
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jeremytrewindixon
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi, I'm new. I've become interested in the gypsy/traveller presence in Eastwood through trying to separate the myth from fact in the stories about George Pickingill and "Silly Bill" Spearman and other alleged wizards/witches. Fanny Bird, Nelly Button. Whether or not George Pickingill was of gypsy kin is a relevant question for those of us interested in this area....
According to folklorist Eric Maple the gypsy presence in Eastwood dates from the 1870s after evictions from Epping Forest. I'm guessing that it is in fact much earlier (and some posts I've seen on this site tend to confirm that without putting it beyond doubt).
Excuse me if this is a silly question btw, I live in Australia!
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jeremytrewindixon
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi aa1webb , thanks for the welcome.
The exact question I am asking is "For how long has there been a significant gypsy population at Eastwood, Essex ?"
The background to this question is the mystery (in some circles the controversy!) concerning the "cunning folk" of the area, notably George Pickingill (or Pettingale, Pickengale etc), ?1816 -1909, of Hockley, Eastwood, Canewdon and elsewhere.
The man doing most of the genealogical research into this area at the moment calls himself "Bill the Exile" and the relevant part of his site is at:
http://www.deadfamilies.com/Z3-Others/Pickingill-Index-Page.htm
You may find some material that more generally deals with your interests, and more is I believe projected.
The controversy about Pickingill largely concerns whether he was on the one hand a run-of-the-mill village cunning man or whether he had a sphere of influence very much greater than that. The evidence for the latter opinion largely rests on the testimony of one Bill Liddell, so the credibility of Bill Liddell's information is an important issue. He has always insisted that Pickingill was of Romany kin. This was not mentioned by the folklorist who first publicized Pickingill (that was Eric Maple in a series of articles in the journal Folklore, it is available on JSTOR) so it is I think a bit of a test issue as to Liddell's broader credibility.
Maple traces the gypsy connection to Eastwood back to he 1870s. But (for example) you will see from Bill the Exile's page that George Pickingill was apparently living in Tinkers Lane Eastwood before then. The question is, does this add to the circumstantial evidence that Pickingill was of gyspy kin or not?
The Pickingill/Pettingale name appears to derive from "Portingale", meaning Portugal or Portugese, (although that is disputed like everything else on this subject); and there is a record of a George Portingale, "Captain of Egyptians" in Essex in 1611. (George was not then such a common forename as it became..) That is breaking news, so to speak, so I don't quite know how significant it is.....
Fanny Bird and Nelly Button were among the many reputed witches of southern Essex, they're mentioned in Maples' articles and turn up on census records...The "Silly Bill" Spearman Maple mentions ("of the well known gypsy family" or words to that effect) was supposed to live in Latchingdon but I haven't so far found any record of him.
An important article on Cunning Murrell, published in 1900, is at:
http://www.witchgrotto.com
I personally first became interested in this subject writing an article on Pickingill for wikipedia; the article is out-of-date now but has some still useful links, it is at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Pickingill
I could go on but this will be more than enough!
Best, Jeremy
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aa1webb
RootsChat Member
Posts: 234
essex
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hello jeremy, 
firstly i can only answer this by what my gran would say which is that gypsy people did not like to mess with magic, ever.
secondly, the names of these people are not known to be obvious gypsy surnames, but you never know for sure.
thirdly, the professions of these people, including servants etc, is definatly not what any of my gypsy ancestors would do.
travelling people worked for themselves or their own families, i.e; flower making/selling, peg making/selling, basket making/selling, reading palms, selling horses, etc.
i live in essex and have to say that canewdon has always been associated with witches and stuff and people will drive for miles to see canewdon church at a certain time/day?
tinkers lane is now officially under rochfrod district but i dont know that it is associated with gypsy's more like tinkers  (again tales from my old gran) but i think its quite possible that this lane might have lead through to canewdon way, a bit like a shortcross through the fields!!! thats just a theory 
sorry not to be much help.
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buckley
webb
boswell (shadrack line)
pearse
lee
smith (inc epping forest)
heron
bibby
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jeremytrewindixon
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again, aa1webb .
Thanks for your help.......I don't know that the Pickingills were claimed to be Romany proper, but of Romany kin, so that some of them were servants and that they dabbled in magic etc is not fatal I think....
Pickingill himself is repeatedly listed as an "agricultural labourer"....Liddell describes him as a horse dealer. Maple's article "Witchcraft in the Dengie Hundred" describes Spearman of Latchingdon also as an agricultural labourer without much in the way of detail, but he allegedly used his power over machinery in defence of labour conditions ...so it seems that people at least of gyspy origins were capable of being employees. Pickingill also according to the stories Maple collected interested himslef in a wage dispute on at least one (but apparently typical) occasion.
I'm on the other side of the world and am just piecing this together and am aware of my ignorance, please don't mistake my willingness to make theories based on what I do know for arrogance......but my theory is that these people have to be understood in the light of groups like the Horseman's Word and Toadmen.
However all that may be, my specific question is about how long there has been a significant gypsy colony at Eastwood? Does it really only date back to the 1870s as implied by Maple? If it is true that Epping Forest gypsies relocated to Eastwood in the 1870s, why did they choose Eastwood?
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aa1webb
RootsChat Member
Posts: 234
essex
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hello again,
i have been going through some old notes of my own and found that a family of "spearman" in 1881 in brays cottage canewdon road. no "bill/william" though.
in 1861 in ashingdon there is a golden spearman 20yr.
wakering, foulness, canewdon etc, were all farming areas's, still are actually. rochfrod was small village, more pubs than homes, lol. 
one of the first marriages i have relates to eastwood, name of david print, used name of webb also. so there were gypsy's in eastwood before 1870 as this marriage was 1857, in the church that this thread about, eastwood (st laurence & all saints ) church.
hope this helps towards answering your question.
amanda
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buckley
webb
boswell (shadrack line)
pearse
lee
smith (inc epping forest)
heron
bibby
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jeremytrewindixon
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks, this is in fact all helpful. Its like putting one of those great big jigsaws together, eh? A jigsaw that was bought from an op shop (a "charity shop" I think you say in UK) so you don't know how many pieces are missing....
I have many other questions (such as the implications of the forename "Golden") but don't want to sidetrack this thread too much....
An e-mail list where I sometimes post stuff related to my specific interest is at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pickingill/ Since south eastern Essex is the core relevant area you might from time to time find some information of use to you there.
Best, j
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