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Topic: Grace AITKEN, nee Tennant, Edinburgh (Read 2593 times)
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KirstyG
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 927
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Rootschat copyright guidelines
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,37822.0.html
With regard to census entries if the original image is visable to someone, maybe they could do their own transcription of the relevent part. Posting the whole page is usually not allowed. Perhaps the relevant documents could be sent by email. The PM system is very useful for arranging such things 
Kirsty
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Galloway, Landers, Lindsay, Gillespie, Irvine
Erskine, McAdam, Hawthorn
Robertson, Duncan, Edmonstone, Black
Anderson, Nicholson, Crombie, MacDonald
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Akwaba
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 53
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Now could some kind person tell me how to get myself shot of RootsChat.com because that action is none too clear and I am not in a helpful mode and have removed 90% of the information on this topic
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KirstyG
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 927
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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As I understand it the rules roughly are that if you have obtained the information (such as a census entry) from a site that you have to pay for, where they have invested money in making their own transcriptions of the records then the copyright on the transcription belongs to them. So if you copy and paste it you are in breach of copyright.
If you get it from somewhere (such as Scotlands People) where you get an image of the original document then you are free to make your own transcription and post that.
It is always a good idea to mention crown copyright somewhere.
There have been many threads and discussions on this in various parts of the forum, and at the top of every board is a READ THIS FIRST COPYRIGHT post. If you have queries on what is and is not allowed I am sure you can check the FAQs etc or ask one of the Mods for clarification.
Kirsty
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Galloway, Landers, Lindsay, Gillespie, Irvine
Erskine, McAdam, Hawthorn
Robertson, Duncan, Edmonstone, Black
Anderson, Nicholson, Crombie, MacDonald
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Boongie Pam
Global Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2497
Pa is Scottish, Ma is Welsh, Nose is Roamin'
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The problem was the cut and pastes from Ancestry scottish census - sadly that breaks copyright rules and we need to protect the site from litigation - hence the removal of the copy and pastes.
Sorry this has upset you but it really isn't personal.
As previously mentioned transcribing from the original image is ok, but not copying a companies indexing.
Regards,
Pam
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
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Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier
Currently offline due to work reasons- sorry for the silence!
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Danchaslyn
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 596
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
It seems to me, that once a RootsChat Moderator has censored a Topic, 99.9% of Members avoid the Topic like a plague..............have noticed this trend in other topics. 
Why? 
Are 99.9 or whatever % of members not prepared to involve themselves in controversy? Are the members perhaps afraid of a similar fate?
Having a few days ago viewed, along with countless other members an image in 'Artefacts' clearly displaying the appendage, 'Copyright of Shropshire Archives', and countless other extracts, from what I would perceive as possibly being 'copyrighted' in 'Deciphering Help', and viewing member Akaaba's helpful and informative contributions to this post, as being from a source other than a 'paid for source', I find Boongie Pam's deletion actions, harsh in the extreme. 
Such extreme censorship is neither beneficial, nor productive to Members. 
I, for one, have no idea how now to progress this Topic in a positive and enlightening fashion.
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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MOE, Norway, Swaziland, and Zululand, South Africa
JORGENSON, Hole, Ringerike, Buskurud, Norway
AITKEN, Scotland, England, India, Island of St Helena, South Africa
LOBB, India and London
WALSH, India and England
SHORT, Yorkshire, England, Island of St Helena
BATEMAN, Island of St Helena, U.S.A.
YUILL, U.S.A.
FIRTH, Yorkshire, Engand
LIPTROT, various counties of England
SMITH, various counties of England
LYNCH, Yorkshire, England, Rhodesia and South Africa
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saxonw.
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 375
So many honest folk but it's the liars and cheats
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Fascinating that mine was removed because I didn't just cut and paste I made substantial alterations and added several annotations. If I'd typed it out verbatim then it that OK . I can't remember ever what it was I looked up for you. When I got time (which Unfortuanately I haven't a the moment:) I will pm it to you.
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Warks -Blundell, Stagg,Guest,Jennings
Ireland -Guest , Connor, Nowlan/Nolan,Hemming
Norfolk-Stagg
Cardigan-Jones
Glamorgan- David
Monmouth and Glos-Witts, Bowsher
Derby Leics and Notts: Roulstone, Morley,Astle, Poxon , Bywater, Sanderson, Barnett, Fletcher
Hants- Jennings
Cornwall- Trestain, Stirrup,Gyles, Pearce, Cock
Devon- Hutchin(g)s , Griffey,Davies
Middlesex- Stirrup
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Boongie Pam
Global Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2497
Pa is Scottish, Ma is Welsh, Nose is Roamin'
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Just to be clear I did not delete. That was a copyright editor who is an expert in this matter. I will however point them to the threads you describe.
The rules are clearly posted around the site I do not see how it is aiding the original question debating.
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
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Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier
Currently offline due to work reasons- sorry for the silence!
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KirstyG
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 927
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Ignoring all the confusing sidelines and speculation I have tried to summarise what has been found so far. I am aware there are a few gaps ( 1861 census?)
If anyone would care to fill in the missing pieces, citing sources if possible to help others who might want to trace this family.
As far as I know posting links is fine 
it's a long list so I will post again...
Kirsty
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« Last Edit: Sunday 26 April 09 17:44 UTC (UK) by KirstyG »
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Galloway, Landers, Lindsay, Gillespie, Irvine
Erskine, McAdam, Hawthorn
Robertson, Duncan, Edmonstone, Black
Anderson, Nicholson, Crombie, MacDonald
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KirstyG
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 927
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Grace Tennant, b. Edinburgh, 1831, d. 16/10/1910, married John Aitken, b. 1826-7?, a sawyer of Kirkurd, d.1913, Newington?
"GRACE TENNANT married JOHN AITKEN on the 19 AUG 1867 in
West Linton, Peebles, Scotland "
Who were Grace's parents please?
Robert Tennant
Mothers surname begins with L
Probably Liddel?
Who were John's parents please?
They may be listed on his death certificate or marriage certificate to Grace.
John Aitken had been married before, but I have no details of his first wife, or where and when wed?
Janet Bain married 14th March 1852 West Linton
I have details of his first two sons, William Aitken, b. 1853 and Archibald, b.1855, possibly at Penicuik, or Bridgehouse Mile, West Lothian? Would welcome more details on them?
William ch. 31st October 1852
Archibald b. 15th February 1855
John b. 8th March 1857
Archibald's 1855 Birth certificate will have a lot of information on it. Worth purchasing from Scotlands People.
In a later post I can go into details of John and Grace Aitken's children.
Extracted records from IGI
John b. 13th May 1861 West Linton
Robert b. 11th May 1863 West Linton
Elizabeth b. 3rd August 1865 West Linton
Thomas b. 4th April 1871 West Linton
Richard b. 12th May 1874 West Linton
Rev Thomas Aitken, Baptist Prison Chaplain on the Island of St Helena, then Gen Secretary or whatever they call it, of the Baptist Church, South Africa
Richard Aitken, Bank Clerk at age 16? On "Ethiopia" from Glasgow - New York 8th April 1891
Sir Robert Aitken, Banker in India, became Governor of Imperial Bank of India
Census records
1841
"Civil Parish of Edinburgh Lady Yester Midlothian
Royal Infirmary
Grace Tennant
10 yrs old 1831 born Scotland
Father Cow Feeder"
1881
Possibly listed as Grace Pratt Aitken?
with Richard Aitken age 1 and Elizabeth age 25?
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Galloway, Landers, Lindsay, Gillespie, Irvine
Erskine, McAdam, Hawthorn
Robertson, Duncan, Edmonstone, Black
Anderson, Nicholson, Crombie, MacDonald
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Boongie Pam
Global Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2497
Pa is Scottish, Ma is Welsh, Nose is Roamin'
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"GRACE TENNANT married JOHN AITKEN on the 19 AUG 1867 in
West Linton, Peebles, Scotland "
Who were Grace's parents please?
Robert Tennant
Mothers surname begins with L
Probably Liddel?
Who were John's parents please?
They may be listed on his death certificate or marriage certificate to Grace.
I have paid for the marriage cert and transcribed below:
Confirmed it is a 2nd marriage for John but says first for Grace.
1867
on the 19th day of August at West Linton
After Banns according to the United Presbytarian Church
[signed]
John Aitken age 41
Sawyer
Widower
[signed]
Grace Tennant age 36
Sampstress (think should be seamtress)
Spinster
John's parents are William Aitken joiner (deceased) and Jane Aitken m.s. Veitch (deceased)
Grace's parent's are not listed.
Both bride and groom resident in West Linton, Peebleshire.
Witnesses Thomas Ritchie Wear & Maggie Coutts.
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
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Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier
Currently offline due to work reasons- sorry for the silence!
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Boongie Pam
Global Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2497
Pa is Scottish, Ma is Welsh, Nose is Roamin'
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William Aitken and Jane Veitch show a marriage entry in Canongate on the 27/11/1816.
The only OPR record for these two - Searched for surname Aitken parents names Will* & Ve*
John Aitken 30/04/1826 Kirkurd, Peebleshire (parents William Aitken and JEAN Veitch)
You would need to view these images to see if they gave any info such as occupation to confirm they are the same couple.
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
~~~~~~~~~~~
Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier
Currently offline due to work reasons- sorry for the silence!
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Danchaslyn
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 596
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
Firstly to reply, in order of seniority......Boongie Pam, I'm sorry I incorrectly assumed it was you who was responsible for the deletions.
As it was the Copyright Editor, and quite a few members are disgruntled, I would appreciate him coming out from behind his desk, assuming responsibility and possibly re-instating, those carefully thought out, and hard worked upon posts, on this thread, made by the members who took the time and trouble, to precis from other sites and post, not cut and paste.
For members to feel undermined and upset, can only cause a complete lack of confidence in this site, and tarnish the reputation, causing some, to migrate elsewhere.
Quite obviously this is counter productive and negates all the wonderful, warm, caring help given by the majority on this site, for which, I for one, I am extremely grateful.
Kirsty G, what a wonderful, kind effort you have made in reconstructing what you can.....we all know there was a lot more, and I can see that you with all good intentions are repeating some of what is already known, and posted on other threads, such as Aitken, Peeble-Shire. Thank you. 
saxonw, thank you......................also, in an earlier post on this thread, you mentioned John & Grace Aitken's youngest son, Richard, leaving for the USA, by ship. Richard is a mystery man, and I would love, if possible, as much info on him as possible please? The clue is banking....... 
Thank you
Danchaslyn
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MOE, Norway, Swaziland, and Zululand, South Africa
JORGENSON, Hole, Ringerike, Buskurud, Norway
AITKEN, Scotland, England, India, Island of St Helena, South Africa
LOBB, India and London
WALSH, India and England
SHORT, Yorkshire, England, Island of St Helena
BATEMAN, Island of St Helena, U.S.A.
YUILL, U.S.A.
FIRTH, Yorkshire, Engand
LIPTROT, various counties of England
SMITH, various counties of England
LYNCH, Yorkshire, England, Rhodesia and South Africa
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Boongie Pam
Global Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2497
Pa is Scottish, Ma is Welsh, Nose is Roamin'
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All:
Please note much of the information requested and recieved on this thread is a duplication here...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,370337.0.html
Danchaslyn,
As I previously stated there are many many posts on a daily basis which volunteers need to scan for copyright infringements. Users themselves are responsible for their actions and the rules are clearly displayed on the site.
I am tempted to ask you to complete this thread as there is a risk that users are spending money on information you already have from your other threads. (I paid for a marriage cert you had already recieved detail from on a Peebles thread).
To ensure you recieve the new information you need please state the questions you are curious to solve and people will try their best. Any continued debate on copyright will be deleted.
Regards,
Pam
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
~~~~~~~~~~~
Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier
Currently offline due to work reasons- sorry for the silence!
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KirstyG
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 927
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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From IGI (extracted)
ANN ch. 23rd September 1821 Kirkurd, Peebles. Parents William Atkin and Jean Veitch
MARION 23rd may 1824 Kirkurd, Peebles. Parents William Aitkin and Jean Veitch
JOHN 30th April 1826 Kirkurd, Peebles. Parents William Aitken and Jean Veitch
Spellings seem to vary quite a bit, even in the same parish within 2 years
Jean/Jane/Janet can be interchangable.
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Galloway, Landers, Lindsay, Gillespie, Irvine
Erskine, McAdam, Hawthorn
Robertson, Duncan, Edmonstone, Black
Anderson, Nicholson, Crombie, MacDonald
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saxonw.
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 375
So many honest folk but it's the liars and cheats
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Not sure if it is the one on the Ethiopia as he is a Scottish mason with atick against his name for age.... but then the mason was also a tick from the chap two above: Sometimes I think 19 C pursers were lazy. Will Investigate further.
I tlooks as if that Richard Aitken is 24 (not 74 as transcribed ) and an engineer
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Warks -Blundell, Stagg,Guest,Jennings
Ireland -Guest , Connor, Nowlan/Nolan,Hemming
Norfolk-Stagg
Cardigan-Jones
Glamorgan- David
Monmouth and Glos-Witts, Bowsher
Derby Leics and Notts: Roulstone, Morley,Astle, Poxon , Bywater, Sanderson, Barnett, Fletcher
Hants- Jennings
Cornwall- Trestain, Stirrup,Gyles, Pearce, Cock
Devon- Hutchin(g)s , Griffey,Davies
Middlesex- Stirrup
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