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Topic: Heir hunters (Read 1855 times)
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Nick29
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2899
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It will be hard to regulate though, don't you think ?
I've seen cases on the TV where Fraser and Fraser have actually told the beneficiaries the name of the person who had died and left money, because they knew that the people would jump to the conclusion of the identity anyway. Lesser companies are often much more devious. I can never prove it, but I think this happened to us - the company who dealt with our case knew that if they contacted me or my sister, we would immediately guess who it was that had passed away, so they deliberately ignored us, and found some distant cousins instead. How can you safeguard against something like that ?
I really do understand your concerns, because these rogue companies do get the heir hunter business a bad name, but I'm not sure that there is an easy way of stopping it ? How can you prove this sort of thing ?
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Best Wishes, Nick. Research interests: Field - Luton & Islington Hole - Somerset, Suffolk & Surrey Farnish, Parker, Cattermole, Last, Wasp, Church - Suffolk Lewin/Lowin/Lowen - Hertfordhire Martin - Eltham & Greenwich, Kent (London) Stead - Greenwich, London (Kent) & Maidstone Wood - Hertfordshire Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Nick29
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2899
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As the guy from Fraser & Fraser said regulate the business. make them pass exams and get qualifications. set up a regulator to hear and adjudicate on complaints.
set up a code of conduct with rules that are clear and transparent and make all of them "Treat Customers fairly"
Its not rocket science smf long overgue.
Barry
It's slightly harder than you think. Making people pass exams doesn't make them honest. It's very hard to prove that something was done deliberately, and not due to sheer incompetence. You might as well say "Make all MP's behave honestly" - it will have just about the same effect ! 
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Best Wishes, Nick. Research interests: Field - Luton & Islington Hole - Somerset, Suffolk & Surrey Farnish, Parker, Cattermole, Last, Wasp, Church - Suffolk Lewin/Lowin/Lowen - Hertfordhire Martin - Eltham & Greenwich, Kent (London) Stead - Greenwich, London (Kent) & Maidstone Wood - Hertfordshire Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Nick29
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2899
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I know how you think, because you just told us. What's the point in complaining to a regulator when you can't prove whether what a company has done is deliberate, or just incompetent ?
You keep saying that it's not rocket science, but you clearly don't understand what goes on with some of these more unscrupulous characters in the heir hunters industry ! I have been in a legal battle for nearly a year to reclaim over £130,000 which was paid out to the wrong people, because some ******** heir hunter was more interested in his commission than doing the job properly  I know who they were, but the problem is that I can't prove it.
This company allegedly couldn't find my birth, even though it is registered in the same registry office where my parents' marriage was recorded, just over a year after they got married. They failed to find my sister's birth. They couldn't trace my sister, even though her name and relationship to the deceased was on my father's death certificate, which the heir hunters found. They did, however, manage to trace the offspring of my father's brothers, neither of whom had ever heard of my half-brother, something I'd not been able to find in 2 years of researching the family tree. If the heir hunters had found me or my sister, we would have known immediately who had died, and we wouldn't have had to have them tell us, and claim their commission. The person who left the money was our half-brother, by the way.
Underhand dealing or just incompetence ? Go figure - it's not rocket science !
Note that the company in question is NOT Fraser & Fraser - in fact they have been helping me.
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« Last Edit: Friday 26 June 09 06:56 UTC (UK) by Nick29 »
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Best Wishes, Nick. Research interests: Field - Luton & Islington Hole - Somerset, Suffolk & Surrey Farnish, Parker, Cattermole, Last, Wasp, Church - Suffolk Lewin/Lowin/Lowen - Hertfordhire Martin - Eltham & Greenwich, Kent (London) Stead - Greenwich, London (Kent) & Maidstone Wood - Hertfordshire Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Nick29
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2899
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............ what I dont understand Nick is why your remarks were made about my post specifically when the Spokesperson from Fraser & Fraser stated that it was high time the industry was regulated.
Because you commented that "it's not rocket science", which I take to mean that it would be pretty easy ?
As a start heir hunters should be forced to take out compulsory insurance to cover them against their own mistakes. The larger companies like F & F already have this, but if you did manage to prove a case against one of the smaller ones, chances are that they would declare bankruptcy before you ever saw a penny of the money, and then you'd have your own court costs to find. And that still wouldn't stop the more unscrupulous ones using dodgy practices in order to guarantee their own commission. This is the only way these companies make their money.
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Best Wishes, Nick. Research interests: Field - Luton & Islington Hole - Somerset, Suffolk & Surrey Farnish, Parker, Cattermole, Last, Wasp, Church - Suffolk Lewin/Lowin/Lowen - Hertfordhire Martin - Eltham & Greenwich, Kent (London) Stead - Greenwich, London (Kent) & Maidstone Wood - Hertfordshire Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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davidft
RootsChat Member
Posts: 153
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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[quote author=Nick29
If the heir hunters had found me or my sister, we would have known immediately who had died, and we wouldn't have had to have them tell us, and claim their commission. The person who left the money was our half-brother, by the way.
You have posted before about your ongoing case. If I may ask a question. I understand that the heir hunters have to put a case forward to the Treasury solicitors to get the estate released. I thought this had to be a pretty robust case, that is certainly the impression given in some of the previous HH programmes. However, your case would seem to imply this is not the case. May I ask have you had any conversations with the Treasury Solicitors Department about this or do they refuse to have anything to do with the case once the estate has been released. Further I always understood that no one in law could be given legal title based on incorrect information. As this is what has happened in your case surely both the HH firm and the TSD are at fault?
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Looking for any leads on ELIZABETH KNIGHT born c1877 died 1908 Sittingbourne, Kent. Married to William Crayden.
I know her father was Thomas Knight, no idea who her mother is, yet.
Grateful for any help
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Nick29
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2899
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You are certainly correct that you interpreted my comment that way but as I pointed out in my last post the case for regulating the industry is not rocket science. I have explained that several times.
Yes, you have told us that it is easy several times how easy it is, you just haven't given any details of HOW
I'll ignore the rest of your post, because it is quite impolite.
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Best Wishes, Nick. Research interests: Field - Luton & Islington Hole - Somerset, Suffolk & Surrey Farnish, Parker, Cattermole, Last, Wasp, Church - Suffolk Lewin/Lowin/Lowen - Hertfordhire Martin - Eltham & Greenwich, Kent (London) Stead - Greenwich, London (Kent) & Maidstone Wood - Hertfordshire Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Nick29
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2899
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You have posted before about your ongoing case. If I may ask a question. I understand that the heir hunters have to put a case forward to the Treasury solicitors to get the estate released. I thought this had to be a pretty robust case, that is certainly the impression given in some of the previous HH programmes. However, your case would seem to imply this is not the case. May I ask have you had any conversations with the Treasury Solicitors Department about this or do they refuse to have anything to do with the case once the estate has been released. Further I always understood that no one in law could be given legal title based on incorrect information. As this is what has happened in your case surely both the HH firm and the TSD are at fault?
As far as I'm aware, as soon as a payment is made, it's final. However, someone with a better claim to the estate can take legal action to reclaim the money if they can demonstrate that they have a better claim, and people who are found by heir hunters are encouraged to take out Missing Beneficiary Indemnity Insurance, which will pay out if someone establishes a better claim. This is what happened in my case, but getting the insurance company to pay out isn't as easy or quick as you would think - my claim has been going on for nearly a year now, and only now is it looking as if it will soon be completed. I will have a year's legal costs to pay when I do get the money, which I'm unlikely to be able to recover.
However, I believe that the heir hunters company that found the people that were originally paid out deliberately ignored me and my sister when they were hunting, because they knew that if they knocked on either of our doors and told us that a relative had died and had left over £100,000, we would have immediately have known who it was, and they would not have got any commission. I just can't prove it, and it's pointless trying to sue the original heir hunters, because even if I won, it's unlikely they would have any insurance against a claim against them, and they would probably dissolve the company to avoid paying.
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Best Wishes, Nick. Research interests: Field - Luton & Islington Hole - Somerset, Suffolk & Surrey Farnish, Parker, Cattermole, Last, Wasp, Church - Suffolk Lewin/Lowin/Lowen - Hertfordhire Martin - Eltham & Greenwich, Kent (London) Stead - Greenwich, London (Kent) & Maidstone Wood - Hertfordshire Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Nick29
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2899
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impolite nick mmm
I notice that that you now agree with what I originally said. I also notice that you dont ask the spokesperson for Fraser and Fraser how it is to be regulated and as I read the posts again he did say first that the industry should be regulated and he would be in a better position to answer your question.
rudeness comes when you ignore what is said and continue as if your opinion is all that matters. Dont you want the industry to be regulated?
Barry
I think you ought to follow the advice you gave in your last post about holes and digging. Please don't waste your time with a reply.
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Best Wishes, Nick. Research interests: Field - Luton & Islington Hole - Somerset, Suffolk & Surrey Farnish, Parker, Cattermole, Last, Wasp, Church - Suffolk Lewin/Lowin/Lowen - Hertfordhire Martin - Eltham & Greenwich, Kent (London) Stead - Greenwich, London (Kent) & Maidstone Wood - Hertfordshire Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Nick29
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2899
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I've discussed this with Neil Fraser, and he has given me some very useful advice. I know Neil is very anxious to get some sort of regulation in place, because the cowboys are getting the heir hunter industry a bad name. I think one of the problems is that probate law is in itself a bit of a minefield which should be cleaned up, but the government is unlikely to do anything, because as often as not the treasury are the winners, when heirs can't be traced.
Incidentally, there have been cases similar to mine on Heir Hunters, where Fraser and Fraser have found heirs who would immediately guess who the deceased person was, and what Fraser and Fraser did was to do the horourable thing, and tell the people how to make the claim, and forego their commission.
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Best Wishes, Nick. Research interests: Field - Luton & Islington Hole - Somerset, Suffolk & Surrey Farnish, Parker, Cattermole, Last, Wasp, Church - Suffolk Lewin/Lowin/Lowen - Hertfordhire Martin - Eltham & Greenwich, Kent (London) Stead - Greenwich, London (Kent) & Maidstone Wood - Hertfordshire Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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