|
Pages: 1 2 [3]
|
 |
|
Author
|
Topic: Barr Family (Read 2762 times)
|
Rae33
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 39
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hello Ann
There are two more grandchildren on the next page of the 1851 -
Robert Crawford aged 10
John Robertson aged 6
Robert was the son of Rebecca Robertson and David Crawford married 8 Feb 1840 at Abbey Paisley. Maybe David had died before the census and Rebecca had reverted back to her maiden name. Robert Crawford was born in 1840 and died 26 Oct 1859 at Paisley aged 19.
I found a John Robertson christened 22 Jun 1845 High Church Paisley parents James Robertson and Jane or Jean Knox who married 6 Dec 1840 at High Church Paisley. Unfortunately there are no details of address or parents on the marriage proclamations. I thought Jane Knox may have died before the census which is why James is shown as single. That is why I thought John aged 6 belongs to James and Alexander aged 12 must belong to William.
I wasn't able to find another census with a father William and son Alex at the right ages which is why I have been concentrating on this family. Of course there could be another son of Wm and Helen Barr we haven't unearthed yet who could be the father of Alexander (12).
I haven't been able to find when Elizabeth Grozet died but know that she was deceased when Alexander married Mary Wallace in 1870.
Regards....Rae
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Ann Baker
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1278
They're hiding there somewhere!
|
Hi Rae
Sorry I missed the two boys of the end. My second page had become detached from me first. I knew about the David Crawford marrying Rebecca in 1840 bit. Nothing strange about her having the Robertson name on the census especially if dad was the one giving the details. My dad still uses my maiden name - it's a Scottish thing lol. David tho certainly had died by the 1861 as Rebecca is on there with Janet Watt (Elizabeth Wylie's eldest from her first marriage). She is shown as a widow but can I find her death cert? And no kids at all which is odd.
James could well have been married twice as well. The girl he married in 1851 (Isabella - sometimes shown as Elizabeth- O'Hara) is a lot younger than him.
The thing that bothers me and not sure how going to solve is there is a gap in the kids of William and Helen between about 1809 and 1820. The Robertsons were non conformists which basically means the baptisms aren't on Scotland;s People and a lot are missing from the IGI.
The other bad news is the BMDs are not on the Kirk Session records for the church they were members of - I had this checked by a professional researcher . The only thing I can see now to follow up on are the Paisley Poor records which start in 1839 and hope they claimed Poor Relief and that identifies the missing kids.
I'm not discounting the fact James or William married twice but until it;s proven is still an unanswered question - this family drive ya nuts lol!
Ann 
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Torrens, Thompson - Tyrone & Fermanagh,Connolly, Campbell - Monaghan & Cavan, McGovern, Carroll, Orr - Ireland
Connolly, Fulton, Stirling, Cameron, McKellar, Robertson, McGovern, Torrance, Bisland, Fraser, Hamilton, O'Hara, McAusland, McTaggart , Lambie, Twedale, Hart, Clark(Paisley/Barrhead/Glasgow)
McGovern, Liddell - Falkirk
Mair, Muir, Carroll, Stewart, Law, Orr - Lanarkshire
Torrance - Brisbane
Connolly , Robertson- NSW
McGovan(?), Robertson , Agnew-
|
|
|
Rae33
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 39
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi Ann
Must say it is not looking good for me to take my research beyond William Robertson and Elizabeth Grozet.
Have you been able to locate your William (45 on 1851) on the 1841 census? I have searched everywhere but no luck. Found Jean living with Rebecca Crawford at High St Johnstone, but not Barbara. They are an elusive lot.
Can't find my Alexander Robertson on 1841 either and only the one at Castle Street (with a father William) in 1851. My mother-in-law was certain the family all lived in Paisley, and I have the three death certificates for William Robertsons who died between 1870 and 1897 in Renfrewshire and two others from Glasgow from Scotlands People and none of them match up. All quite discouraging.
I always thought the gap between Hugh ch 1809 and James b c1816 was because William (Chelsea pensioner) was away at war. Fits in with the Napoleonic wars.
Thanks for your help Ann. Best wishes.......Rae
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Ann Baker
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1278
They're hiding there somewhere!
|
Hi Rae
Researching Robertsons is very frustrating indeed. This lot especially because the were non conform church wise and I know their BMDs are not in the Kirk Sessions - I had a researcher to to Edinburgh for me. Not just them that are missing but all BMDs she reported back. This makes it even harder.
I am going to see what I can find down the Chelsea Pensioner and war route as that may bear some fruit.
Barbara I MAY, stress may, have found . There is a Barbara Robertson who on the 1861 is the right age but is in London as a servant to a GP and his wife who was born in Scotland. It also says she is a widow so am going to follow that one up cos she definitely didn't die in Scotland.
The Jean with Rebecca is Elizabeth Wylie's daughter from her first marrigae - the one that's with her mother and Wylie grandparents on the 1851. Now interestingly Rebecca is shown as a widow on the 1861. David Crawfor is on the 1841 with her and Robert then disappears. Now he could have died pre 1851 but I have found a death cert in 1861 for a David Crawford in Paisley. He'd be about the right age - sadly he hung himself. The niggle I have tho is that this happened 6 months after the census was taken so more digging to do there.
I've not found my William on the 1841 yet which could mean he was married before. Not ruling that one out but not ruling it in til can find more concrete proof.
I know they attended the Canal St church. As it happens my gt aunt goes there. She's not related to the Robertson side as this was mum's mum's side and Auntie Mae is mum's dad's sis BUT she may be able to ask some questions for me. The church may have records she can see.
The other avenue I'm going to look into is the poor records and will be emailing the library later today about them . They didn't start til 1839 but you never know!
Probelm we have here is that there were a lot of Robertsons in Paisley and it feels like they were all called William or James lol.
Will let you know if I turn anything else up
Ann
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Torrens, Thompson - Tyrone & Fermanagh,Connolly, Campbell - Monaghan & Cavan, McGovern, Carroll, Orr - Ireland
Connolly, Fulton, Stirling, Cameron, McKellar, Robertson, McGovern, Torrance, Bisland, Fraser, Hamilton, O'Hara, McAusland, McTaggart , Lambie, Twedale, Hart, Clark(Paisley/Barrhead/Glasgow)
McGovern, Liddell - Falkirk
Mair, Muir, Carroll, Stewart, Law, Orr - Lanarkshire
Torrance - Brisbane
Connolly , Robertson- NSW
McGovan(?), Robertson , Agnew-
|
|
|
Rae33
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 39
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hello Ann
Yes Ann there seems to be a huge number of Robertsons in Paisley, and they never seem to be MY Robertsons! I found eight children for James and Isabella/Elizabeth O'Hara on the IGI. Now I'm doubting James married Jane Knox as they had a Mary and a John and then John names two of his children with Isabella, Mary and John. I can hardly keep sending them to an early demise. Did you find James' death certificate - I have had no luck there.
Interesting you say your Robertsons attended the Canal St Church, as Alexander and Mary lived at 16 Canal Street in 1871. I pore over the maps and it's interesting to see they seemed to live in the same areas over the years, Storie and Maxwellton Street. Alexander died at 23 George Street in 1897.
Thanks again.......Rae
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Ann Baker
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1278
They're hiding there somewhere!
|
Hi Rae
I do have James death cert and no mention of any other Mrs than the O'hara lady.
Also have all the kids birth certs bar the first two. First one was a James and second not known. Only reason have these is because the birth cert for the 3rd child was in 1855 (marvellous year for certs) and it says 1 boy living and one dead and this is 3rd child. The first 2 were before they got married. Naughty James cos she'd only have been a kid herself. According to their marriage banns she was 18 when they got married and he was 30.
James died 21/1/1874. On the death cert is says dad John and mum Helen Barr. I am taking this as correct cert because of the fact his wife is correctly recorded and his mum's name is OK. Death was reported by bro in law a James Robertson.
So one of his sisters married a Robertson but which one?
George St is just round corner from Canal St! In fact runs parallel.
I have also found an 1841 entry for a Barbara with also a Jess and an Agnes Robertson. Being 1841 doesn't say if related but they could be so am looking at that. If she is THE Barbara then she was a shawl sewer and lived in Stevenson St. That would fit with other locations where the family were in Paisley in 1841 and would ex[plain why she's not on the 1841 with mum and dad tho is more the south end than the west where they were later.
Interesting re Storie st because the William who is my gt gt grandfather also lived in Storie St which is a wee bit nearer Paisley town centre.
They are sent to try us
Ann
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Torrens, Thompson - Tyrone & Fermanagh,Connolly, Campbell - Monaghan & Cavan, McGovern, Carroll, Orr - Ireland
Connolly, Fulton, Stirling, Cameron, McKellar, Robertson, McGovern, Torrance, Bisland, Fraser, Hamilton, O'Hara, McAusland, McTaggart , Lambie, Twedale, Hart, Clark(Paisley/Barrhead/Glasgow)
McGovern, Liddell - Falkirk
Mair, Muir, Carroll, Stewart, Law, Orr - Lanarkshire
Torrance - Brisbane
Connolly , Robertson- NSW
McGovan(?), Robertson , Agnew-
|
|
|
Rae33
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 39
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi Ann
Thanks for the info re James' death. Shame it doesn't give a first wife's name, now we still don't know who John (6) in 1851 belongs to. Could you tell me what James' occupation is shown as on the cert and his address?
When I was working on his being married to Jean Knox, I obtained their daughter Mary's marriage cert when she married James Wills in 1865. Mary gave her father's occ as 'shawl manufacturer'. She was living at 144 George St and James Wills was living at 63 George Street. Interesting that the bro-in-law is yet another James Robertson. Couldn't you just shake them that they didn't give them an outstanding second name - better still their mother's maiden name. I haven't found any of the sisters married to a Robertson yet. It could be a sister of Isabella O'Hara who married a Robertson.
I have worked on that 1841 census for Barbara. Her father was James Robertson and her mother Agnes Tarbert/Tarber.
Extracted marriage M116434 James Robertson and Agnes Tarbert 4 Jun 1820 East Kilbride Lanark.
Extracted christeneing C116434 Barbara Robertson 3 Jun 1821 East Kilbride Lanark.
LGS member submits -
Barbara Robertson b 29 Apr 1820 ch 20 May 1820 East Kilbride Lanark
Margaret Robertson - same as above (maybe twins)
Agnes Robertson b 6 Jul 1823 ch 13 Jul 1823 East Kilbride Lanark
Best wishes....Rae
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Ann Baker
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1278
They're hiding there somewhere!
|
Hi Rae
He was a shawl weaver and his address at death was 7 Bridge St. Bridge St is right next to Paisley Abbey. At that time tho it was all slum housing - long gone now. I have other rellies who lived there - funnily enough O;Haras. Not sure if my other ones and James' Mrs are connected. So far not found anything.
Thanks ever so for checking out that 1841. Can't be our Barbara then  . Interesting it does say for her she was born out of county but not her 2 sisters and no Margaret on the census but she could well have left home or died even.
James' 3rd child Mary married an Archibald Russell in 1878 and they had 6 children (well I've found 6 so far).
Like you I am still wondering who those Robertson grandchildren on that 1851 belong to. Will we find out? I do hope so. Won;t be for want of trying 
Best Wishes
Ann
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Torrens, Thompson - Tyrone & Fermanagh,Connolly, Campbell - Monaghan & Cavan, McGovern, Carroll, Orr - Ireland
Connolly, Fulton, Stirling, Cameron, McKellar, Robertson, McGovern, Torrance, Bisland, Fraser, Hamilton, O'Hara, McAusland, McTaggart , Lambie, Twedale, Hart, Clark(Paisley/Barrhead/Glasgow)
McGovern, Liddell - Falkirk
Mair, Muir, Carroll, Stewart, Law, Orr - Lanarkshire
Torrance - Brisbane
Connolly , Robertson- NSW
McGovan(?), Robertson , Agnew-
|
|
|
Ann Baker
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1278
They're hiding there somewhere!
|
Rae
Some good news.
I have confimed that William (the Helen Barr one) IS the guy born in 1777 parents William (dee :)p joy! and Elizabeth Ewart). Have found another 5 siblings so looking at them at mo to see if can find any more clues.
Am pleased I have a gtx5 grandpa confirmed
Ann
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Torrens, Thompson - Tyrone & Fermanagh,Connolly, Campbell - Monaghan & Cavan, McGovern, Carroll, Orr - Ireland
Connolly, Fulton, Stirling, Cameron, McKellar, Robertson, McGovern, Torrance, Bisland, Fraser, Hamilton, O'Hara, McAusland, McTaggart , Lambie, Twedale, Hart, Clark(Paisley/Barrhead/Glasgow)
McGovern, Liddell - Falkirk
Mair, Muir, Carroll, Stewart, Law, Orr - Lanarkshire
Torrance - Brisbane
Connolly , Robertson- NSW
McGovan(?), Robertson , Agnew-
|
|
|
Rae33
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 39
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi Ann
Well done! That's wonderful news - another generation revealed. This is the same one on the IGI that gave only the father's name as William and no mother's name. I have checked the IGI and found the five siblings. There are a few variations on the spelling of the surname Ewart, they don't make it easy do they.
I don't know what happened but I missed seeing the email notification for this post or I'd have answered by return - I am really thrilled.
Ref your previous post, thanks for the details of James' address, I doubt he is the same James married to Jane Knox. Do you think Isabella's parents are John and Mary O'Harra at Cotton Street in 1841 - though the daughter is Anabella aged 7.
Thanks again for the info and happy delving........Rae
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Ann Baker
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1278
They're hiding there somewhere!
|
Hi Rae
Funny I'm not getting messages either so am having to remember to check!
Those Oh'hara could be Isabella's parents (She does show up as Elizabeth on some records tho which is a pain).
Her parents were John O;Hara and Mary Sweenie accoprding to the death cert. I've not looked for any of her lot yet tho I will cos I have O'Haras (Daniel O'Hara who married and Elizabeth Wilson who are my gt x 3 grandparents) in my direct line.
Would be funny tho if they did turn out to be related cos the Daniel O'Haras are mum's dad's side and this lot mum's mum's.
I've also got a Che;sea Pensioner lead to look up for William 1777 and his brother James (seems he was in the army too)
Ann
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Torrens, Thompson - Tyrone & Fermanagh,Connolly, Campbell - Monaghan & Cavan, McGovern, Carroll, Orr - Ireland
Connolly, Fulton, Stirling, Cameron, McKellar, Robertson, McGovern, Torrance, Bisland, Fraser, Hamilton, O'Hara, McAusland, McTaggart , Lambie, Twedale, Hart, Clark(Paisley/Barrhead/Glasgow)
McGovern, Liddell - Falkirk
Mair, Muir, Carroll, Stewart, Law, Orr - Lanarkshire
Torrance - Brisbane
Connolly , Robertson- NSW
McGovan(?), Robertson , Agnew-
|
|
|
Rae33
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 39
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi Ann
I thought they may be the O'Hara family because Isabella has named one of the girls Catherine and she had a sister Cathrine.
Good luck with your lead on the Chelsea pensioner. I looked on the national archives and couldn't decide whether William b1777 was the one born in Bunhill served in the 83rd foot regiment 1797 - no discharge date but would be c1828 or the one born Renfrew served in 2nd dragoons 1794-1821. I wonder if your William b1806 was in the army at some time though I couldnt see him at the Paisley barracks in 1841.
Will be interested to hear what you find.
Regards....Rae
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Rae33
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 39
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hello Ann
You have probably found this already but I came across William Robertson and Elizabeth Youart's marriage purely by accident - under Robison -
William Robison married Elizabeth Youart 2 Dec 1774 Parish Inchinnan
County Renfrew GROS Data 566/0010 0164
and another daughter
Elizabeth Ewart Robison Birth 24 Nov 1791 Chr 27 Nov 1791 Kilmacolm, Renfrew, Scotland
IGI extracted birth Batch no C115692
The first Elizabeth must have died.
I have seen the Robison name come up but haven't always checked it so will have to in future.
Rae
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
cavers89
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 11
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
I have a James Barr born, probably anywhere around 1740 to 1760, around Huston, Kilbarchan, Lochwinnoch area. he had a Daughter Jannet Barr born 1775 in Lochwinnoch, He later married a Jannet Lindsay in 1791 in Huston, then had children Robert b.1792, Jean b.1794, Robert b.1796, James b.1799.
Dose anyone have information for a possible connection?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3]
|
|
|
|
|
