Johnsrj
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Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I am descended from Jane Trindade Johns' brother henry , born about 1821 in Truro. He came to Australia around 1852, my great grandfather Thomas Henry Johns was born in Australia, my grandfather Thomas Merton Johns was born here in 1895.
I am trying to trace the Johns line back and am also very interested in the Martyn line. Henry's father William Johns who married Jane Lawer is fairly well documented. I have his father Richard Johns,(dob 1734) marrying Gertrude Martyn- but that is as far as I have been able to get back on the Johns line. Is anyone aware of records of Richard Johns' father?
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krisesjoint
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Nate at 9 weeks
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Hi John,
A Big Welcome to RootsChat 
I have separated your post from the Ambrose GROSE thread.
I am just looking at my Martyn Johns file and I do not see Jane with a brother Henry. the last three I have were born in Mawnan. Charles Henry (1816, did not survive) Edward Lawer 1821 = Matilda HARPUR 1864 and Charles 1821 = Elizabeth DARKE. (Their father was actually listed as Richard at baptism.)
Richard JOHNS was baptised 20 Nov 1734 in St Agnes the son of Richard JOHNS and Margaret MARTYN who married in Crantock 17 Jan 1729.
Can you please tell us a little more about Henry. What leads you to believe he is the son of Richard and Gertrude?
Cheers Kris 
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Johnsrj
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Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Henry is the son of William, grandson of Richard. He was the twin of Charles, obviously named after the other Charles Henry who died an infant.
Henry came to Australia in 1852. He had a first wife and a son William, then he married Ellen Holden and my great grandfather was born in 1865. Henry died in 1888 in Highton Vic, where I was born.
I am grateful for the information concerning Richard's father, Richard, - do you have the Johns line going back any further. I have seen from my research that there was quite a bit of inter-mingling between Martyns and Johnses right up to the 20th century.
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krisesjoint
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Nate at 9 weeks
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Hi John,
Well how interesting. I had never found that baptism before nor have I come across him in the census. Have you seen the original of the baptism entry? I am wondering if a mistake may have been made here and there was only one son Charles Henry. The reason I ask is that (besides the tree we all have does not list him), you mention a wife and son William. Charles did marry Elizabeth DARKE and had a son William in 1845. In 1851 they are in St Col with 3 children. I do not see them in 1861. Do you have 1841 and 1851 census references for Henry.
Cheers Kris
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krisesjoint
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Nate at 9 weeks
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John,
Looking further I note the reason I could not see Charles in 1861 is that this family do appear to have arrived in Victoria in 1852 aboard the BOMBAY. 
Unassisted Immigrants to Victoria 1852 Bombay Dec 1852 Port B Fiche 020 page 018
JOHNS Chas 31
JOHNS Elizh 30
JOHNS Wm 7
JOHNS Stephen 4
JOHNS Mary 2
JOHNS Elizh 1
Now for possible interest there is another Johns family on the same ship on page 20, will list just in case.
JOHNS J__ 23
JOHNS Ann 23
JOHNS Wm 2
JOHNS Joseph 1
Cheers Kris
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krisesjoint
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Nate at 9 weeks
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MMM Well I can forget that idea. Charles and Elizabeth are having children in Vic after your Henry has married Ellen. I really thought that was it when I found Charles arriving in 1852. Quite exciting that there is another son.
Cheers Kris
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Johnsrj
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I don't have my material with me, as I am in the office. I'll be heading home shortly and I'll get a document that came into my possession that my father's cousin came by, it is headed Johns family of Truro, it is basically the descendants of William Johns of Crantock, Charles is on it, marrying Elizabeth Darke, and many of my great grandfather's cousins had darke as a second name. I may have got a name or two wrong , as I've been typing from memory but I'll send what I have, (unfortunately I don't have a scanner) . I am sure that Charles had a twin but maybe I have got mixed up.
My name is Scott Johns by the way so I am happy for you to reply to Scott.
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krisesjoint
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Nate at 9 weeks
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Sorry about the name Scott,
I am sure you are right. I just had not come across Henry before. When I found Charles and Elizabeth (who had disappeared) had in fact immigrating in 1852, and he did have a son William. I thought it may have been just one person. Look forward to hearing more from you. I still have not located Henry in the census.
There was, as you know a lot of intermarriages within the gentry, around St Columb and Crantock. Turnavine, Munday, Martyn, Johns, Darke, Symons, Nicholls to name a few. They preferred these cousin alliances as it ensured a Strong position within the community.
Cheers Kris
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Johnsrj
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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We always understood that Henry came over on the Ticonderoga, and that he had a wife Elizabeth who died on the passage. He married Ellen Holden in Australia.
On the inter-marrying- there is in our Australian line- two Johns cousins who married, late 1900s
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krisesjoint
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Nate at 9 weeks
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Ahha,
Here it is. 1852. 
Henry and Elizabeth are listed including that she died aboard the ship.
http://www.ticonderoga.com.au/
Why would he have been an ag lab? Assisted immigrants
Kris
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Johnsrj
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks for that. Ag lab sounds like farm labourer. I believe he was a tailor back in Truro, but they all farmed for a while out here in the Barrabool Hills just on the edge of Geelong. Charles was supposed to be a master mariner? Henry's grandson Clarence Henry was a sailor.He was actuall shipwrecked up in th Torres Strait before the first war and had to swim to an iland where he was marooned for a while. He went on to serve in the first war along with two of his brothers, my grandfather included.
They all had the dark-eyed features you see in those wonderful old photos you've attached in other threads.
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krisesjoint
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10429
Nate at 9 weeks
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Hi Scott,
It just does not sound right to me. Listing as an ag lab is certainly not something I would expect to see in this family. There is a Henry who was a Tailor appearing in 1851 with his wife Jane and Children, born Penryn but he is still in Cornwall in 1861.
William was a farmer. William and Jane's sons were all Farmers, plus an accountant, a Grocer, a master mariner and a shipwright. Charles was a Shipwright, It was William who was the master mariner.
There does not appear to be any children with Henry and Elizabeth on the ship. I did see a marriage of Henry JOHNS to Elizabeth INCH Jun 1852 Truro 5c 279, I guess could be possible.
Do you have Henry and Ellen's marriage certificate?
Kris
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Johnsrj
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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No, I don't have the certificate. I believe the first wife was elizabeth rundle.
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Johnsrj
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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The 1841 census has Henry as a tailor I believe.
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krisesjoint
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10429
Nate at 9 weeks
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Scott,
Sorry, I do not believe that is your man. He is married to Jane in 1851 and in 1861 still in Cornwall with Jane. I still cannot spot a likely for your Henry in the census.
Cornwall Census is Free Online. Take a look yourself
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,144624.0.html
Kris
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