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Topic: Jessie Gardiner married in Dumfries (Read 886 times)
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saley
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 14
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Joyce - I was intrigued about the reference to the 1861 census re Mary Ann - can you provide details. John Hart was from Ashton in Makerfield in Lancs, not that far from St Helens. My notes from looking into his family read
"in 1861 census : lived at Wallace's Cottages with Frances [28] who came from ?Lawton, and 5 children - Williiam 9, John 7, Matthew 6, Mary 4 and Alice 2; he worked as a hingemaker; by 1871 he had likely died, Frances now remarried to William Holden and living at Town Green; there had been one further Hart child - Thomas 6; there was one Holden child - Martha 1; Frances and children had moved in with William - he had been in Ashton in 1861, single and living with his mother; in 1851, young Henry, then 20, lived at home with his father Peter, mother Mary, and 9 younger siblings."
John Hart and Mary Ann had 5 children - Jessie, the first, married Peter Moville in 1900 - and they had 14 children (!). Moville is likely a name that evolved from Mulvihill. Jessie, now Moville, was known in the family as Granny Lan. The family lived in Bramwell St, Parr, St Helens until quite recently, coming to an end when Jessie's youngest daughter Florence died.
Martin Casey seems to have separated from his household at some stage - I found a reference to him being in Auckland, Yorks, and working as a 'stone miner'
regards
Ian
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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Hi Ian
Welcome to RootsChat 
Is it your posts I linked to on RootsWeb?
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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saley
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 14
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Yes - that was me - returning to the research after a bit of a lapse.
cheers
Ian
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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Ian
I found a few bits and pieces this morning for you and Joyce to follow up on....let me go and try and find them all again!
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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diavalos
RootsChat Member
Posts: 100
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Ian
This has to be the most difficult family to track ever.
This is what i know. I discovered today that the Scottish connection was not just a passing by. I had been looking for Mary Ann Casey for some time, and for a while was on completely the wrong track, following a Mary Ann Casey who was born in Blackpool (near to Poulton-le-Fylde) to Burnley. She was the daughter of James Casey and Catherine Keough. Unfortunately the dates of this Mary Ann's birth did not match up with the marriage dates of Mary Ann and John Hart.
I eventually got on the right track and found a Mary Casey (not Mary Ann) living at Church street Poulton-le-fylde, this gives her birth as Isle of man 1859. Grandaughter of John Mcanus and Ann Mc manus both born Rosscommon and lodging housekeepers. 1861 Jessie was married to Martin (transcribed as Marlon) Casey b. 1828 Roscommon. Umbrella maker and working Cutler. Martin died 23 february 1874 age 49, Jessie carried on the business until after 1891. 1901 she is living at Aughton st. Everton Liverpool with her son Martin and family.
Mary Ann Casey married John Hart 30th Jan 1876 on the Isle of man (still to find out why he was there) There are also quite a lot of other Harts on the island. Their first daughter Jessie Frances was born Habergham Eves nr. Burnley 15 January 1878. ( incidentally Habergham Eves is where the Mary Ann who i was originally trailing was living there at the same time but married to a John Jaques I have wondered about a connection with these two families but that is for the future.)
The family then moved to St Helens where 1n 1881 they are rercorded as being called Holding. As you say John's mother married William Holden after first husband Henry Hart died.They revert back to Hart by 1891, but now have a daughter born in 1884 in West Rainton Durham.
There are 5 children of John and Mary Ann. On the 1891 census there is a David Miller born Isle of man 1898 recorded as a nephew. I believe he is the son of Mary Ann's sister Jessie Casey who married Herbert Miller Isle of man.
1901 living with the Harts is David is recorded as David William Hart son. but David married in 1919 in Wigan and was again called David Miller.
1911 and John Hart is recorded as John William Hart first time in 57 years that he has a second Christian name.
I could go on for ever. but i should say that John and Mary Ann were my husband's great grandparents. His grandparents were Mary Elizabeth Hart youngest daughter of J and MA, and Matthew Turner. They moved to Mexborough South Yorks in abt. 1922 and remained there.
Also i met two Movills about 20 years ago William who lived in Parr St Helens and his brother Sam who was apparently a champion cross country runner.
We live within an hours drive of St Helens Wigan and Liverpool, so if there is anything i can do for you photos or any thing i would be glad to oblige.
Hope to speak again
Joyce
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diavalos
RootsChat Member
Posts: 100
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Monica
I would be glad of any light in the tunnel
Joyce
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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Looks likely that Samuel Snr died between 1851-54 (can't see a death for him post 1855). This looks like wife and family in 1861:
Jessie Gardiner 59, Watchmaker's Widow, b. Foulden, Berwickshire
Samuel Gardiner 14, son, b. Whithorn
Samuel Gardiner 5, grandson, b. Whithorn
John Gardiner 2, grandson, b. Whithorn
Address: Main St., Whithorn
Assuming Jessie mother died in Scotland, you should be able to find her death cert and confirm her maiden name.
The two grandsons above look to be the children of son, John, and a Helen Wallace:
1. SAMUEL GARDINER Birth: 06 JUL 1856 Whithorn
2. JOHN GARDINER Birth: 24 MAR 1859 Whithorn
There is also this child showing as born to Georgina Gardiner:
JESSIE ELIZABETH GARDINER Birth: 14 JAN 1868 Whithorn
In respect of the Leech/Leach name that you have made reference to in your RootsWeb posts and the two children James and Mary, I wondered whether mother was daughter Jane. There is this birth showing:
JESSIE LEACH Birth: 26 SEP 1855 Whithorn. Parents James Leach and Jane Gardener.
This 1855 birth entry, the first year of Scottish registration will include apart from parents' marriage details, where mother was from which will let you confirm with hopefully an Aberdeen ref. that it is the right family.
This young Jessie shows as an 'inmate' in Liverpool in 1871, age 15 and born in Scotland - RG10; Piece: 3841; Folio: 111
There are a number of other Leech/Leach children also showing as inmates in 1871 which might be connected. I haven't been able to find the household as yet in 1861, most likely in England (Liverpool?).
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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I'll leave you to unravel this entry in 1871 Galgate, Lancashire 
RG10; Piece: 4228; Folio: 94
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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saley
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 14
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Amazing - overnight (my time) a whole lot of new jigsaw pieces are thrown on the table. i'll probably not be able to sort through this until the weekend. I'm still wondering about the mobility of this clan IOM, Lancs, Galloway, Aberdeen, Berwick - could the sea be important? Had a look at the Stirlings mentioned at Galgate - they also turned up in Habergham Eaves. John Stirling's occupation given as mariner - 1881, RG 11/4154 - 18
cheers
Ian
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diavalos
RootsChat Member
Posts: 100
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
Isnt it exciting a whole new lot of names to go at.
I looked at the Stirlings as well and nearly fell off my chair when i saw they were in Habergham Eves. Probably about the same time as Mary Ann and John Hart.
Did you look at the 1881 census for Galgate there is also a Samule Gardiner birth Scotland. living in the town. Which incidentally is nothing more than a couple of streets a square and a church. There is an enormous and now derelict silk mill there though which employed people from all over the country. It is pretty much in the country side,now and would certainly have been in 1870s. It is only a few miles from Glasson Dock a place where slave ships docked the city of Lancaster just up the road is famous for its slace trade. there was also a lot of cargo ships docking there presumably with raw silk for the factory.So water is very much a part of the area. Ellel is about a half hour drive from where i live and i know it quite well but i never expected to find family there.
I am hoping to get to Ellel this weekend and have a look at the graveyard etc.
so i will keep you posted and photograph anything i see.
Speak soon
Joyce
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saley
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 14
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Here's some more - Sarah Stirling married John in IOM 1867, but before that was briefly married to a Peter McClelland at Whithorn - Jessie was originally a McClelland. Jane Pool was originally Gardiner, but for a while was a Leach.
I might have to invest in some certificates to try and understand this unusual family.
cheers
Ian
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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I think sister Georgina may have married to a Stackhouse. She shows as such on 1881 with daughter Jessie E. G. Stackhouse, b. 1868 in Scotland.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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saley
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 14
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I had thought Sarah's husband John Stirling may have moved on. In 1891 census found a 47 year old John Stirling, Scotland birth, working as a shipping clerk, and with a wife who is not Sarah, at Kirkdale, Lancs - however, even though haven't tracked down the Stirlings yet, this is definitely a different John Stirling of similar age and nationality. John's maritime exploits are apparent through Australian records - in a record uploaded he is listed as a firemen and donkeyman on the James Paterson. Latest visit I can find so far is on the Quirang in 1884 at which time he was 40.
Ian
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john_stirling_at_sea.jpeg