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Topic: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY (Read 2198 times)
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Newberrychaser
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 21
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi David et al.
I agree that the IGI has been polluted and therefore, I have great reservations about using it at all. It has become unreliable, and yes, some are definitely clutching at straws. However, I am not one of them. The PR's for this family don’t seem to have survived in that area of Dorset. I wondered at the veracity of the Worcester entries, which is why I mentioned it, as it has turned up elsewhere in other authors' writings.
Actually, there IS evidence provided by William Whiteway’s Diary that a Mr. Newberry of Marshwood Vale was on the ship headed to New England in April of 1634. Savage thinks that he was also there in 1630, but no ship logs prove it. There are wills that prove that the Dabinott family had a 99 year lease on property there, and that lease was willed to the grandsons of Christopher Dabinott (aka Thomas Newberry’s sons, Benjamin, Joseph and John). Actually in ancient times, the area belonged at one time to the Newburghs.
Joseph Newberry went back home from New England in 1647 and took up the running of the farm at Marshwood. There was a big to do and a suit by Morgan Haine, who also had been in New England, regarding the inheritance of that lease. It seems his wife Rawlin was involved in the contestation of Christopher Dabinott’s will. Robert Newberry (uncle of Joseph) stepped in and settled it. So there is plenty to show that the family was there, but the extant records do not give us the full picture.
Surrounding parishes have been searched, but it appears the ones that are needed to prove these children are no longer extant. They DEFINITELY were not born in New England, as their father died in 1635, just one year after they landed in Dorchester, MA. Their mother remarried to Rev. Warham.
I know this notion of baptism outside of one’s home parish flies in the face of all research paradigms; and, at this point, I am unable to offer direct quotations, but I believe the information I cited came from -
Sharpe, Pamela, Population and Society in an East Devon Parish, Reproducing Colyton, 1540-1840. University of Exeter Press 2002.
I have the information in my research notes, but would probably have to request the book again from inter-library loan to show you the passage and page numbers.
Sorry to have taken the thread off topic. Carry on. . .  
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bedfordshire boy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4764
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Hi Sue
As I'm sure you're aware, there are numerous online trees for Thomas Newberry, being one of the earlier emigrants to America. The quality of research varies enormously. One of those which seem well researched shows two of his children being baptised at Whitchurch Canonicorum in Marshwood Vale - Mary on 22 Oct 1626 (coincidentally this is the same date as given on the IGI for the birth in Worcester!) and John on 19 Feb 1628/9. The parish register for Whitchurch Canonicorum is held at Dorset History Centre - it doesn't appear to have been filmed by the LDS for this period nor is a transcription for baptisms available prior to 1730. This is where I would start. If these can be confirmed it tends blow Worcester out of the water.
I know this notion of baptism outside of one’s home parish flies in the face of all research paradigms;
It wasn't unusual. Children could be baptised wherever their parents wanted. So long as the child wasn't illegitimate the parish where it was born or baptised didn't affect it's parish of settlement - that was automatically the father's parish of legal settlement. It's just that I don't believe that they travelled 130 miles for each child to be baptised. But in any case the IGI shows them as being births at Worcester, not baptisms. And as the last five are wrong, (as Thomas had already died in America before four of his children were allegedly born in Worcester) I see no reason why the other entries should be any more accurate, particularly if you can verify the Whitchurch baptisms.
Odd that according to some sources he married two Jane Dabinotts yet neither marriage has been found.
David
Looking at Ancestral Roots 7 I see that Thomas Newberry was a descendant of my 20xg grandfather, Eudo la Zouche. So we must be very distant cousins!
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 18 November 09 11:02 UTC (UK) by bedfordshire boy »
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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Newberrychaser
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 21
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi David:
The only other idea I have on this is that some of the children could have been baptized all at the same time, as we have found baptisms of adults in our work. But as you have said, the IGI looks fishy all the way down the line on this one. One would think that in this time frame children would be baptized directly after birth, but later or adult baptisms don't seem to be outside the realm of possiblity either.
I wonder why Whitchurch was not filmed? A person that I have worked with in England, apparently didn't find the Whitchurch registers in the Dorset History Center. . . Hmmm. . .
There is a book about the Newberry family written by Joseph Gardner Bartlett, "The Newberry Genealogy," which seems to be the Bible by which most people have done their research and posted online. Most of what is online is not totally correct, especially if they are using Bartlett. There is a little known fact that Bartlett was contacted by the College of Arms in 1925 and his work was called into question, especially on the Thomas Newberry line. They went back and forth debating specific points, and finally Bartlett came to the conclusion that he needed to ammend his earlier findings. One specific thing that he says at the end of his work regarding the Dorset family was that there were people in Dalwood and Stockland who were not related. As it turns out, he began trying to ferret through old wills to find the right connections. Unfortunately, he did not finish before he died. It is here, where I have picked up his work and continue to search for connections that seem to be severed from the family line. The College has a line which they claim to be correct, but we are still analyzing.
I am working with another researcher in England and we are translating as many Newburgh/Newberry wills/documents as we can lay our hands on. Hopefully one day with all the PRs and other extant information in hand, we will be able to put this line to rights. Interpreting the information correctly is always chancy which is why we end up with problems such as are seen in the IGI. Therefore, collateral connections are also being examined. It is arduous to say the least.
Your comment about the Dabinott women is an old conundrum. Supposedly, Thomas was first married to Joan Dabinott and then his second wife was either a sister or a cousin. No one seems to know for sure. Even that seems to not be on solid ground, because the marriage records are missing. At least five of the children were produced by his first wife.
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Newberrychaser
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 21
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Great information David. I haven't seen this site. Thank you!  I have spent a lot of time ordering films, so some of the information online is new.
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Linda63
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Well, I'm lost for words! I'm quite a newbie really, and thought I was doing very well with my family tree, getting as far back as 1700s.
So, as you can imagine I'm finding all this information on the Newberry's quite overwhealming.
I'm probably going to show my ignorance now, but I have to ask... are these Newberry's who went off to America in the 1600s and the la Zouche's connected with my Newberry's? Or is that a different line?
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bedfordshire boy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4764
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There's nothing that I've seen to date that links the Beds/Herts Newberrys with the Dorset family, other than the name's the same. But the earliest Newberrys on the IGI seem to have been from Devon/Dorset and Stepney London so it's possible that they spread out from the south-west.
The problem is Joseph Newberry alias Monk whose origin is unknown, and until his baptism is found it's pure speculation that he might be connected to the early minor gentry Newberrys, one of whom emigrated with his family to America
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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Linda63
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks for clearing that up for me David.
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