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Topic: Was Sudbury ever part of Essex? (Read 466 times)
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Keith Sherwood
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3508
One's native place is the shell of one's soul...
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Hi, Everyone,
I'm a trifle confused about the discovery of the CROW family in the 1841 Census. Benjamin CROW is listed as a publican in Ballingdon, Sudbury, Essex.
Yet I notice from an 1839 Directory of Pubs in Suffolk, that he is listed at The White Horse, Ballingdon Street, Sudbury.
He's an elusive character at the best of times to track down - can't make my mind out whether by 1851 he's a widowed butler in a household in Westminster, or if that's someone totally different.
But, one focus at a time - can someone clarify the Ballingdon/Sudbury query for me...?
Very best wishes,
keith
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patrish
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4387
My kind of place
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Hi Keith,
According to Genukie reg districts Sudbury was in Suffolk from 1837 to 1974
but I am fairly sure its very close to the Essex border.
Patrish 
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this information is Crown Copyright. from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk London Hall, Thurston Stanley, Phillips, Ayrton, White, Morrish, Smith. West Ham/Barking Saint,Briggs, Essex Barker, Hampshire Kill, Kent Spong, U.S.A Earp, Scotland/Cumbria Templeton, Devon Morrish, Chudley |
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suffolk*sue
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5091
Catherine Sandys, I WILL find out where you went.
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Hi Keith
Ballingdon was at one time in Essex, now the Essex/Suffolk border is half way up Ballingdon Hill, going towards Bulmer.
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Keith Sherwood
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3508
One's native place is the shell of one's soul...
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Hi again Patrish and Sue,
Thanks very much for that, though I must admit I'm not much the wiser!
keith
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suffolkmawther
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1339
'Jumper' & Eliza Fulker
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Keith, Ballingdon had its own identity.
Ballingdon Street had many businesses along on either side, and a few pubs! and a brewery.
I would have loved to see it in the 1800s, whereas today it is the main road leaving Sudbury for Essex and is the subject of the much needed southern by-pass.
There are some lovely photographs at www.sudburysuffolk.co.uk/photoarchive
My favourite is of three young woman walking along Ballingdon Street away from Ballingdon Bridge (the river Stour being the county border) towards Ballingdon Hall end of the village.
Your PRs will probably be at All Saints in Sudbury, the parish church for Ballingdon 
(the other two parish churches are St Gregory and St Peter and they cover the town of Sudbury - all three are at www.suffolkchurches.co.uk).
Pat ...
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Every time I find an ancestor, I have to find two more !
SUFFOLK - Pendle, Stygall, Pipe, Fruer, Bridges, Fisk, Bellamy, Sparham
DERBY - Bridges and Frost (originally from Framlingham/Parham Suffolk)
NOTTINGHAM - Lambert and Selby
BERKSHIRE/then Hammersmith/Barnes LND - Fulker
LONDON/MDX - Murray, Clancy, Broker, Hoskins, Marsden, Wilson, Sale
Gt-Grandfather Michael Wilson was born in Cork, lived in Fulham London - arrived Boston USA 1889 alone - what happened next?
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suffolkmawther
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1339
'Jumper' & Eliza Fulker
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No mention of your boy Crow in Ballingdon or Sudbury in White's 1844 
Pat ...
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Every time I find an ancestor, I have to find two more !
SUFFOLK - Pendle, Stygall, Pipe, Fruer, Bridges, Fisk, Bellamy, Sparham
DERBY - Bridges and Frost (originally from Framlingham/Parham Suffolk)
NOTTINGHAM - Lambert and Selby
BERKSHIRE/then Hammersmith/Barnes LND - Fulker
LONDON/MDX - Murray, Clancy, Broker, Hoskins, Marsden, Wilson, Sale
Gt-Grandfather Michael Wilson was born in Cork, lived in Fulham London - arrived Boston USA 1889 alone - what happened next?
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Keith Sherwood
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3508
One's native place is the shell of one's soul...
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Pat,
All clear as crystal now, thanks!
Interesting too that he seems to have disappeared so soon after the 1841. His (apparent) mother in law, a Mary DOCKERY, who lives to be quite an old lady, has moved back to the Lincoln area by the 1851 Census, where she is living next to another (quite possibly strongly related) DOCKERY family. There is a death of a Susannah CROW, the name of Benjamin's wife in 1841 or 1842, I believe, for the Witham Reg. District, which might have meant the widowed Benjamin moved on to London to try his hand as a butler in the 1851 Census in Westminster, though I'm by no means certain that it is the same individual...
keith
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suffolkmawther
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1339
'Jumper' & Eliza Fulker
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Coo blast bor, slippery little divil isn't he?
I wish you well in tracking him down 
Pat ...
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Every time I find an ancestor, I have to find two more !
SUFFOLK - Pendle, Stygall, Pipe, Fruer, Bridges, Fisk, Bellamy, Sparham
DERBY - Bridges and Frost (originally from Framlingham/Parham Suffolk)
NOTTINGHAM - Lambert and Selby
BERKSHIRE/then Hammersmith/Barnes LND - Fulker
LONDON/MDX - Murray, Clancy, Broker, Hoskins, Marsden, Wilson, Sale
Gt-Grandfather Michael Wilson was born in Cork, lived in Fulham London - arrived Boston USA 1889 alone - what happened next?
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Keith Sherwood
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3508
One's native place is the shell of one's soul...
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Pat,
I just love that Suffolk dialect!
Have just read: "The Illustrated Portrait of Suffolk" by Allan Jobson, full of fascinating tales of the County. But still think that the best ever slice of Suffolk is that retelling of the tale of (Saint) Edmund in broad dialect in the book by Julian Tennyson; "Suffolk Scene", which has pride of place on one of my bookshelves...
keith
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suffolkmawther
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1339
'Jumper' & Eliza Fulker
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Just for you Keith ~ written by the late Dorothy Leggett, what follows is taken from a monologue for discussion at a WI in East Suffolk.
Oi thort about me son-n-law, but heer bin in horspital. Had a harnis operaishun. Reckon he carn't boike ser far now. Thas ony thutty foive moiles. Yung uns mairk sich a fuss about a few moiles. Me dortter oont boike noither, lairzy mawther.
Wonnt us ter hev a fo'un. "Fo'un", Oi say. Well, Oi tell har. "Dew yew wroit us a letta"
Pat ...
Apologies if this should be in the Lighter pages, but this is written down Suffolk dialect
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Every time I find an ancestor, I have to find two more !
SUFFOLK - Pendle, Stygall, Pipe, Fruer, Bridges, Fisk, Bellamy, Sparham
DERBY - Bridges and Frost (originally from Framlingham/Parham Suffolk)
NOTTINGHAM - Lambert and Selby
BERKSHIRE/then Hammersmith/Barnes LND - Fulker
LONDON/MDX - Murray, Clancy, Broker, Hoskins, Marsden, Wilson, Sale
Gt-Grandfather Michael Wilson was born in Cork, lived in Fulham London - arrived Boston USA 1889 alone - what happened next?
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Keith Sherwood
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3508
One's native place is the shell of one's soul...
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Very nice, Pat, I love to hear the Suffolk dialect spoken...
keith
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Keith Sherwood
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3508
One's native place is the shell of one's soul...
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Hi again, Pat,
Afraid I can't do this post in the Suffolk dialect, but it appears that Benjamin CROW might have been a slippery little devil, though I think I have pinned the wriggler down...
Have just received through the post an 1855 marriage certificate for a George Dockery CROW (his son) and Mary Ann KEELEY. George Dockery specifically states that his father is/was a Benjamin CROW, butler.
So the individual in the 1851 Census in Westminster simply HAS to be him. I suppose he was still serving drinks in a fashion after his time at The White Horse, Ballingdon.
But it does look as though his first wife Susannah did indeed die soon after the 1841 Census, that his children by that first marriage were subsequently brought up by their grandmother and other relations back in Lincoln, and that once in London he re-married a Sarah WILKS in 1854 (have just now sent off for that to determine his father's name).
The strange thing is that he wrote his will at just about the time he got married, and died subsequently in 1855, so perhaps he'd been not a very well man at his wedding. I've downloaded his will from TNA online, though it's not a terribly interesting one for detail.
Benjamin also states in the 1851 that he was born in North Walsham, Norfolk ("Northwalsome"), so he must have wandered quite a bit from there to Lincs to Suffolk/Essex to London. Bit of a "sojourner", maybe...
Regards, keith
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