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Author Topic: John Willis  (Read 1653 times)
lizdb
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Posts: 9414
Re: John Willis
« Reply #75 on: Tuesday 19 May 09 12:46 UTC (UK) »
Hi all
 Embarrassed

I am a bit scared to post anything after my mess up yesterday over 1861 - sorry all, I was obviously seeing everything squiffy.
Thanks for putting everyone straight.

I think Carol now deserves the prize - certainly looks like them in 1851 doesnt it?
And I reckon the image is Owen.

If it is the same guy, I dont see how it can be simply an error on that census for whatever reason (middle name, maiden name, error) because we have found the births for Caroline and Harry under Owen.
Looks very much like a name change to me.
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Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
sifer
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Posts: 133


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: John Willis
« Reply #76 on: Tuesday 19 May 09 12:52 UTC (UK) »
Well i just started looking at the marriage certificate of henry willis and matilda beasley, and here is a interesting note!!!

The witnesses for their marriage are thomas owen and maria owen!!!!!!
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carol8353
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My two gorgeous grandsons
Re: John Willis
« Reply #77 on: Tuesday 19 May 09 12:59 UTC (UK) »
I Had to laugh out loud at that  Grin Grin Grin

Now do you see why we ask who the witnesses were?

Off to see who Thomas and Maria were.
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Rogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas
Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire
Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset
Jenner,Clapham Surrey
Kendrick,Liverpool
Wensley,Somerset

Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland
Blake and Maloney from  Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland
sifer
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Posts: 133


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: John Willis
« Reply #78 on: Tuesday 19 May 09 13:03 UTC (UK) »
at that time of day after finishing a 12hr. shift the eyes and mind go bye bye together
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evie
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Posts: 1867


Barnaby
Re: John Willis
« Reply #79 on: Tuesday 19 May 09 14:48 UTC (UK) »
Quote from: lizdb on Tuesday 19 May 09 12:46 UTC (UK)
Hi all
 Embarrassed

I am a bit scared to post anything after my mess up yesterday over 1861 - sorry all, I was obviously seeing everything squiffy.
Thanks for putting everyone straight.

I think Carol now deserves the prize - certainly looks like them in 1851 doesnt it?
And I reckon the image is Owen.

If it is the same guy, I dont see how it can be simply an error on that census for whatever reason (middle name, maiden name, error) because we have found the births for Caroline and Harry under Owen.
Looks very much like a name change to me.


Pleased don't be  Embarrassed you have put a lot of hard work into this thread. Yes I agree Carol gets the cream cake today Grin

I also agree he is the same man. Maybe one of his parents or both parents died and he went back to using his original name, one of my rellies did that when he got married, so maybe HE was the step son rather than his children and this is maybe why they had their children baptised at such a later date.

It will be interesting what Carol come up with on the witnesses
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Jackson, Northumberland & Durham
Douthwaite, N Yorks & Durham
Geldard, N Yorks
Ward, Cheshire & W Yorks
Swallow, Boid, W Yorks
Kirby, Lowe, Studholme, Geary, Emery, Baldock

census info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
carol8353
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My two gorgeous grandsons
Re: John Willis
« Reply #80 on: Tuesday 19 May 09 15:11 UTC (UK) »
Quote from: evie on Tuesday 19 May 09 14:48 UTC (UK)
It will be interesting what Carol come up with on the witnesses

Errr nothing girls.........and boys Sad

Too many Thomas Owen's - none that seem to be linked in 1881 with a Maria.
Unless they're brother and sister and not husband and wife.
Maybe they are siblings of John's?

Off to eat my virtual cream cake- less calories than the real thing  Grin

Carol
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Rogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas
Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire
Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset
Jenner,Clapham Surrey
Kendrick,Liverpool
Wensley,Somerset

Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland
Blake and Maloney from  Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland
lizdb
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Posts: 9414
Re: John Willis
« Reply #81 on: Tuesday 19 May 09 16:12 UTC (UK) »
1841 - just a "possible" as there are lots of John Owens around - but this one is a shoe maker

hO107 737 21

Westminster Penitentiary
John Owen 15 shoemaker not bn in county

(our one bn Limehouse/Stepney - was that Middx or Essex?)
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Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
evie
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Posts: 1867


Barnaby
Re: John Willis
« Reply #82 on: Tuesday 19 May 09 16:24 UTC (UK) »
Lizdb - Limehouse is about 0.7 miles away from Stepney in Middlesex.

If it was him it would explain the goings on Cheesy
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Booth, Hornsby, Northumberland & Durham
Jackson, Northumberland & Durham
Douthwaite, N Yorks & Durham
Geldard, N Yorks
Ward, Cheshire & W Yorks
Swallow, Boid, W Yorks
Kirby, Lowe, Studholme, Geary, Emery, Baldock

census info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
lizdb
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Posts: 9414
Re: John Willis
« Reply #83 on: Tuesday 19 May 09 16:29 UTC (UK) »
Quote from: evie on Tuesday 19 May 09 16:24 UTC (UK)
If it was him it would explain the goings on Cheesy

My thoughts too!

Thanks - I just thought momentarily that Limehouse might be further East
I suppose because he said "not born in county" I was wondering if he too thought Limehouse too far east to be the same county as Westminster!!!!!

There is a Willis there too - a 20 yr old Richard Willis described as a "Military Prisoner". Co-incicence more than likely. But who knows - perhaps John wanted to make a new start with a new name and chose that of a fellow inmate!!!
(Carol will tell me off in a moment 'cos she knows my imagination can run a little wild.....!) Grin
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Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
carol8353
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Posts: 5792


My two gorgeous grandsons
Re: John Willis
« Reply #84 on: Tuesday 19 May 09 16:29 UTC (UK) »
Oh cobblers(shoemakers!) naughty naughty- no wonder he was keen to change his name later in life  Grin

You done good Liz  Grin
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Rogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas
Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire
Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset
Jenner,Clapham Surrey
Kendrick,Liverpool
Wensley,Somerset

Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland
Blake and Maloney from  Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland
lizdb
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 9414
Re: John Willis
« Reply #85 on: Tuesday 19 May 09 16:32 UTC (UK) »
Not 100% sure it is him.
There are plenty of John Owen(s) in London of right sort of age (rounding doesnt help) and none that leap out - I was hoping for one in Stepney living with Willises or something obvious.
But when I looked closer at the prisoner guy and saw he was a shoemaker, I thought it  worth posting.
(actually I was only after a slice of the cream cake)
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Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
polarbear
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Posts: 238
Re: John Willis
« Reply #86 on: Tuesday 19 May 09 16:47 UTC (UK) »
Hello again Smiley

I too think that he is the same man.

I have been looking closely at the IGI baptisms and comparing them to freeBMD registrations.

RE: the birth registrations posted earlier by Carol (reply #60) and others.......

The reg for Caroline Elizabeth Owens (#1), Chelsea, Dec qtr 1849 is a good match for the 1863 Willis baptism although the DOB is out a year (c/b a mistranscription). Parents John and Caroline Elizabeth Willis for Caroline and John and Caroline Willis for Harry.

There is another Caroline Elizabeth Owens (#2) registered St Pancras Sep qtr 1851. She is baptized in 1852 at St Pancras Old Church. Parents John and Caroline Owens.

Henry Owens  (#1) b. Mar qtr 1854 St Pancras is baptized in 1854 at Old Church St Pancras. Parents John and Caroline Owens.

This birth year for Henry (#1) is also out a year and the DOB is also different from that of Harry Willis....I did find a birth registration for a Henry Owen (#2) Sep qtr 1855 St Pancras which might be a little closer (?) but the parents might  have had to alter the birth date a bit to register him late.

I wonder if Caroline #2 and Henry #1 might  be brother and sister?

I sure hope this makes some sense?


Next step?

Sifer, I think you should consider ordering the film with the Willis baptisms in to your local Family History Center. The IGI does not have all the information included in the record on the website. Some potentially important little bit of information may have been omitted from the transcription. If you don't know know about Family History Centers, I will be happy to explain further.

I would also consider looking at the film for the Henry Owens baptism at some point. The info about father's occupation that s/b in the record might prove useful.

Polarbear
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sifer
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Posts: 133


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: John Willis
« Reply #87 on: Tuesday 19 May 09 18:27 UTC (UK) »
Ok just got back in, and read everything, So what your saying is that john willis  who married caroline willis was really, john owens who was a prisioner!!! LOL!!!! and when he got out he changed his name too john willis and baptized the children as willis's !!

Go Figure!!

By the way what is the IGI??? plus how do u go about ordering film??? and where would it go too??
I live in kingston ontario canada so not sure what i would do!!!

See the story i was told as a kid was that there was a change in name years ago and no-one knew what it was before! Story was that there was a fight in the family or something like that and that the family all of a sudden became willis instead of the other! So this might make sense!!

Thanks Guys and Ladies
Sifer
« Last Edit: Wednesday 20 May 09 00:55 UTC (UK) by sifer » Logged
polarbear
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Posts: 238
Re: John Willis
« Reply #88 on: Tuesday 19 May 09 19:04 UTC (UK) »
Sifer, I don't want to clutter up this already busy thread with the IGI and Films, etc. so I am going to send you a Personal Message. When I post it, you find access to it at the very top of the page next to where it says Welcome back, Sifer. You can only read and send Personal Messages (PMs, as we refer to them on RootsChat) when you are logged on. You normally also receive e-mail notice that you have received a PM.

I'm a very slow typer so it will be a few minutes coming.

Polarbear
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evie
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1867


Barnaby
Re: John Willis
« Reply #89 on: Tuesday 19 May 09 19:12 UTC (UK) »
Quote from: sifer on Tuesday 19 May 09 18:27 UTC (UK)
See the story i was told as a kid was that there was a change in name years ago and no-one knew what it was before! Story was that there was a fight in the family or something like that and that the family all of a sudden became willis instead of the other! So this might make sense!!


I think it certainly does Tongue Grin
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Booth, Hornsby, Northumberland & Durham
Jackson, Northumberland & Durham
Douthwaite, N Yorks & Durham
Geldard, N Yorks
Ward, Cheshire & W Yorks
Swallow, Boid, W Yorks
Kirby, Lowe, Studholme, Geary, Emery, Baldock

census info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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