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Author Topic: John Willis  (Read 1661 times)
sifer
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Posts: 133


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: John Willis
« Reply #105 on: Friday 03 July 09 02:59 UTC (UK) »
we'll do thanks polar
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sifer
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Posts: 133


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: John Willis
« Reply #106 on: Friday 03 July 09 04:12 UTC (UK) »
I don't get the connection polar???

How could john owen willis who was born then died  be john willis???

Don't get the idead behind it


Sifer
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carol8353
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My two gorgeous grandsons
Re: John Willis
« Reply #107 on: Friday 03 July 09 05:25 UTC (UK) »
Maybe he didin't like, or just didn't use his middle name.
My sister in law hates hers (Imelda  Grin)and NEVER uses it.

Carol
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Rogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas
Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire
Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset
Jenner,Clapham Surrey
Kendrick,Liverpool
Wensley,Somerset

Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland
Blake and Maloney from  Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland
sifer
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Posts: 133


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: John Willis
« Reply #108 on: Friday 03 July 09 05:27 UTC (UK) »
well as polarbear put it john owen willis was born and died the same year!!!

Don't get the connection? to this
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polarbear
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Posts: 238
Re: John Willis
« Reply #109 on: Friday 03 July 09 15:53 UTC (UK) »
Hi Sifer

I suggested that you should look for a baptism for John Owen Willis on the film since you have it in........he may possibly be a son of John and Caroline who unfortunately died as an infant. He is not listed in the batch, and so may not be there, but he also could have been missed off the transcription. He was, however, registered in Strand R. D. and St Clements Danes is apparently in the district.....this is the area the Willis family is living in in the 1861 Census.

You have a fair bit of circumstantial evidence at the moment connecting the Owen and Willis names and this child has both of these names. When one is faced with a brick wall it is prudent to follow up every clue that presents itself because you just never know what you might find.

Hope this makes sense? Smiley

Polarbear
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British Census copyright The National Archives; Canadian Census copyright Library and Archives Canada
sifer
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 133


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: John Willis
« Reply #110 on: Saturday 11 July 09 17:21 UTC (UK) »
ok so i went back today  and found harry willis parents, john and caroline willis 16 great newport st.  gaitor maker!!!! As for a john owen willis born 1861 no luck!!.

Any sugestions, before the film goes back at the end of the month.

Can't remember though how it is that there is a john owen willis again though. something about clicking on the batch file number and finding the name or something. Not sure though.
Very tired right now long night shifts!!LOL
Thanks so far folks for all the help

Peace
Sifer
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polarbear
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Posts: 238
Re: John Willis
« Reply #111 on: Saturday 11 July 09 21:40 UTC (UK) »
Hi Sifer,

Glad you found Harry. It looks like you were able to read the address better too.

As far as what to do with the film while you still have it.......it is generally a good idea to look at the rest of the film for records with the names you are looking for.....in this case Wills and I would say also Owen/s (you already found a Thomas Owen if I remember correctly + one other that slips my mind at the momemt).  Children are born and die between censuses and you may find another child for John and Caroline. 

Too bad John Owen Willis wasn't there.......I need to look up a few things and get my notes in order so I will get back to you later with my thoughts about him.

Polarbear
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British Census copyright The National Archives; Canadian Census copyright Library and Archives Canada
polarbear
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Posts: 238
Re: John Willis
« Reply #112 on: Sunday 12 July 09 03:03 UTC (UK) »
Continuing on from the last post.....

I'm going to summarize some of the info we have from this thread (and the other one?) then pass along my thoughts about John Owen Willis.

1851 Census:

Living in Cheltenham Gloucestershire we have

John Owen 23 Cordwainer b. Middlesex Limehouse
Caroline 25 b. Gloucestershire Newnham
Caroline 1 b. Middlesex Chelsea

RG 9 Piece 178 Folio 89 P. 36

1861 Census:

Living in Middlesex Westminster St Clement Danes we have

John Willis 35 Gaiter Maker b. London Stepney
Caroline 30 b. Gloucestershire Newnham
Caroline 11 b. Middlesex Chelsea
Harry 6 b. Middlesex St Pancras

HO107 Piece 1973 Folio 274 P. 56

If I remember correctly, when these two families were originally discussed it was thought that they were likely the same family with different last names. Yes, the ages are different but that is not an uncommom occurrence in the censuses. The birth places of John, Caroline, and daughter Caroline are, however, an excellent match, as is John's occupation.

You mentioned somewhere along the way that there was a rumor of a name change.

You have a Thomas and Maria Owen as witnesses at Harry/Henry's marriage to Matilda Beasley. Could simply be a coincidence.......we don't know if they are related or not at the moment.

Caroline and Harry were baptized rather late......was this connected to a name change? We don't know the answer to this either.

But......

All of this adds up to quite a bit of circumstantial evidence linking the names Owen and Willis.

I'm going to continue on a new post before I run out of room....

Polarbear
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polarbear
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Posts: 238
Re: John Willis
« Reply #113 on: Sunday 12 July 09 04:01 UTC (UK) »
Continuing on again......

On to John Owen Willis:

If I had all the previously mentioned "circumstantial evidence" connected to my family I would want to know more about this child who has both Owen and Willis in his name. He may hold the key. Or not, unfortunately, but he was born in the registration district that John and Caroline are living in in the 1861 Census, and not long after it was taken.

So if this was my brick wall.........

I would seriously consider ordering the birth certificate for John Owen Willis. And I would not put any father's name down in reference checking. It would cost more that way, of course, but IMHO you should find out who the parents of this child are, even if they turn out to be another couple.

That's it for now. I hope this has made sense. I know it doesn't solve your original query at the moment but I think you need to now try and find the maiden name of the mother in order to be able to progress any further back. The birth of John Owen Willis seems a logical place to start looking. Young Caroline and Harry's births will keep for a later discussion.

Polarbear Smiley

 
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British Census copyright The National Archives; Canadian Census copyright Library and Archives Canada
sifer
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Posts: 133


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: John Willis
« Reply #114 on: Sunday 12 July 09 06:06 UTC (UK) »
I am tired so bear with me would you, lost me  bit tonight its 1:30am right now and i just got in, So if i do order the birth certificate what info should i but in it.>>>?

for john owen willis?

Dont mind me tired hard !

thanks
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polarbear
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Posts: 238
Re: John Willis
« Reply #115 on: Sunday 12 July 09 15:06 UTC (UK) »
Sifer, I hope you are more rested now and have digested my long post a little better? Smiley

I have just accidently lost the entire message I had typed out for you so will have to do it all again in a bit.

Polarbear
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British Census copyright The National Archives; Canadian Census copyright Library and Archives Canada
sifer
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 133


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: John Willis
« Reply #116 on: Sunday 12 July 09 15:48 UTC (UK) »
ok so i found john owen willis birth and death, will see if i can get his birth certificate in soon to find out for sure

thanks
Sifer
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carol8353
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Posts: 5802


My two gorgeous grandsons
Re: John Willis
« Reply #117 on: Sunday 12 July 09 15:55 UTC (UK) »
When you order it make sure you tick the box on the first page that asks " is the GRO reference known"

Then all you need to put is his name JOHN OWEN WILLIS

The district of STRAND- the 1/4 in which is was registered which is SEP 1861

And the volume 1b and the page 463

Good luck

Carol
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Rogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas
Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire
Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset
Jenner,Clapham Surrey
Kendrick,Liverpool
Wensley,Somerset

Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland
Blake and Maloney from  Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland
sifer
RootsChat Member
***
Posts: 133


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: John Willis
« Reply #118 on: Sunday 12 July 09 16:33 UTC (UK) »
will do!!!  is there another census site that is free that i can use to look around on my own??

Right now down to using my laptop. Had a major crash with my pc, and lost my main harddrive. luckly all the files were on a backup drive, but lost all links that i was saving.

so for now using laptop till new drive comes in!!!.2yrs. worth of work down the drain, for links!! Fun day last week.
Thanks again folks you've been a great help

Sifer
P.S.
did get copys of the film so far so have on record
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polarbear
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Posts: 238
Re: John Willis
« Reply #119 on: Sunday 12 July 09 16:37 UTC (UK) »
Hi Sifer and Carol Smiley

Sifer, I too wish you good luck with the birth certificate of John Owen Willis. Put down only the information that Carol has suggested. That way we will find out who the parents of the little boy were. I hope the information will give us some clues to work with.

Please let us know what is on the certificate when you get it and we will carry on from there. One step at a time is best at this point.

Brick walls are difficult but I know from my own experience that they are not impossible to crack. We will do our best to help you crack yours Smiley.

Polarbear
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