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Author Topic: Elizabeth Ann Iliff/Moore  (Read 207 times)
chillertwist
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Elizabeth Ann Iliff/Moore
« on: Thursday 21 May 09 17:08 UTC (UK) »

Hi Everyone,

This is driving me mad!  I've been trying to locate any records for my great grandmother and this is what I know......

1)Her maiden name was either Elizabeth Ann Iliff or Elizabeth Ann Moore.
2)She was born on 25 April 1896, possibly in the Durham area but not definite. 
3)She was an illegitimate child.
4)She married John William Thompson Watt in Sunderland in 1916 and her father is named as John Iliff (occupation was Steam Boat Engine Man).
5)She had 8 children, all born in Durham, and on ALL of their birth certificates her maiden name is Moore.
6)She died in Bath in the 3rd quarter of 1979.
7)She used to sign her pension book as Elizabeth Ann Iliff Watt.

I've asked Sunderland records office to try and locate a birth certificate but she definitely wasn't born there.  There was an Elizabeth Ann Moore recorded in 1897 but father's don't match.

I found a possible Elizabeth Ann Moore born in Manchester in the second quarter of 1896 but the records office confirmed that the father doesn't match and this child wasn't illegitimate.

Can anyone help.  I'm at the end of my tether on this one.  My nan really wants to know about her mothers family and I have nothing to tell her at the moment!

Is it possible that some illegitimate children would not have had a birth certificate back in the late 1800's?

Thanks to anyone that can help.

Jade
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lizdb
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Posts: 9415
Re: Elizabeth Ann Iliff/Moore
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 21 May 09 18:15 UTC (UK) »
Where did the date and place of birth come from?

Was she married as Iliff or Moore?
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Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
chillertwist
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Posts: 29


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Elizabeth Ann Iliff/Moore
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 21 May 09 18:21 UTC (UK) »
I know she died about a month before I was born and found her death on BMD.  This had her exact birth date, which my nan (Elizabeth's daughter) has confirmed is correct.

Her marriage certificate says Iliff as her surname.  It may be that she switched between the two surnames.  My nan has confirmed that both of them were used.
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chillertwist
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Posts: 29


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Elizabeth Ann Iliff/Moore
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 21 May 09 18:22 UTC (UK) »
The place of birth was just a hunch from my nan.  She thinks it must be near Durham because thats where Elizabeth got married.

The hunch isn't paying off so far!
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heywood
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Posts: 8250
Re: Elizabeth Ann Iliff/Moore
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 21 May 09 18:54 UTC (UK) »
1891 has a John Iliff who works on a canal boat as a mate. He is born Leicestershire and is in Leicestershire but is also married and 53 yrs so he would be quite old to be father to Elizabeth.

I mention him because of the boat connection but it seems unlikely.
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
heywood
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Re: Elizabeth Ann Iliff/Moore
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 21 May 09 19:11 UTC (UK) »
It is difficult for you I realise.

There are several possible births - Elizabeth Moore around right time in Durham.

1901 has an Elizabeth A Moore, 4 yrs born Stanhope, living with her grandparent and several adults- all single. However, there is also a male lodger who could be the father and one of the young females could be the mother I suppose  Undecided
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
lizdb
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Posts: 9415
Re: Elizabeth Ann Iliff/Moore
« Reply #6 on: Friday 22 May 09 09:51 UTC (UK) »
tough one this - as has been said plenty of Elizabeth Moores of the right age around.

Have you got her death cert? In case it gives any more clues.

so - have I got this right, the marriage cert does not mention Moore at all, yet the childrens birth's do not mention Iliff at all?
Logged
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
chillertwist
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Posts: 29


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Elizabeth Ann Iliff/Moore
« Reply #7 on: Friday 22 May 09 09:58 UTC (UK) »

Hi Liz

Yep, the children's birth certs do not mention Iliff.   

I had another look at the marriage cert this morning and have another clue.   The writing on the fathers name is really faint but it looks to say John Moore Iliff!  Perhaps a double barrelled name??

Perhaps I will order the death certificate just in case there is something else.

Regards

Jade
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lizdb
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Re: Elizabeth Ann Iliff/Moore
« Reply #8 on: Friday 22 May 09 10:16 UTC (UK) »
So it could be that the Moore / Iliff interchange started a generation or so back.

Could be nothing to do with them, but there is an Iliff /Moore marriage on IGI:
13 May 1855 St Phillips Birmingham
John Iliffe / Mary Ann Jones Moore

Cant see them in 1861 though.
Logged
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
lizdb
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Posts: 9415
Re: Elizabeth Ann Iliff/Moore
« Reply #9 on: Friday 22 May 09 10:23 UTC (UK) »
That marriage is on FreeBMD
and I also see
Ap/May/Jun 1855
Lutterworth 7a 9
John Iliff / Fanny Moore.
Logged
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
chillertwist
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 29


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Elizabeth Ann Iliff/Moore
« Reply #10 on: Friday 22 May 09 12:12 UTC (UK) »
Thanks liz.  Thats a great help and I will check out both of those marriages.

Spoke to my nan earlier who says that Elizabeth had a sister, called Sis.  I suppose that could be short for Sissy?  I don't know if this was an older or younger sibling.

My nan also said that Elizabeth lived with her mother for a few years and then was put into an orphanage.  The dad (John Iliff) was already married to somebody else she thinks, and Elizabeth was a result of an affair.

Perhaps Elizabeth and a Sis, or Sissy feature on a 1901 census.
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lizdb
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Re: Elizabeth Ann Iliff/Moore
« Reply #11 on: Friday 22 May 09 14:47 UTC (UK) »
I guess 'Sis' could just be a pet name for 'sister'!
Or could be Cecily, Sissy, Cecilia.....
I have tried 1901 for Sis*, and Cec* , with ages 5 yrs either side of Elizabeth, but nothing obvious.
Also tried to look for E A Moores and similar in Institutions - but no success with anything.
Logged
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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