snootycat
RootsChat Member
Posts: 130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hallo,
thank you! Unfortunately both the trees you have mentioned have copied their details from me!
The second one is the mother in law of the nephew I mentioned earlier! So both have a very hazy idea of this family. I have been in contact with the first and she has not made any connections between the family and her own.....she has something like a 1000 people in her tree, so I cant learn anything from either 
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snootycat
RootsChat Member
Posts: 130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I will definitely look at the wills....fascinating.
Its just that my grandmother was a domestic servant who was five months pregnant with my mother when she married, plus my grandfather was a milkman! They started their married life in one room. So I got the impression that life was tough. Going back I then saw that her mother was not married when she had her first, and some sort of missing ( or so I thought) husband!
On my fathers side it is all very run of the mill, although everyone was at least married!
So the impression I got was of a poorer, less 'respectable', family who didnt have to worry about their 'station' in life. My mother ( long since dead) was an inordinate snob, very pretentious for no good reason whatsoever!A real Hyacinth Bucket, who if you recall, had common relatives she was ashamed of. That made me wonder if the same dynamic was at large and that maybe that was why I never really met any relatives, as my parents had cut off from them.
Is there any hope that with your superior knowledge and skill you may be able to trace my grandparents deaths Elisha Sheppard and Margaret Butler? I have had no luck whatsoever. I am hoping that I may then be able to find out who registered the deaths and so try to work out any possible living relatives..it would be nice for us both to find out if we have any family alive today. It would also be nice to know if she really did go bonkers as these things can run in families!!
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9208
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Hi Pam
As you are finding, it will be hard to locate Alfred and Margaret's death certs
With Alfred, you have at least your memory of him still being alive when you were young. With you born in 1951, you think he died when you were 9 -12, so his death somewhere 1960 - 63. With him born 1885 that would make his age at death somewhere between 75 - 78. If he had died in his 90s, you would have been in your mid twenties...and you would remember that!
Do you have any recollection on where he lived, even as a general area, when you were growing up? Did he go by the name of Alfred, Fred, Elisha. This may indicate how his death may have been registered. If you have his address from the 1920s, you could check to see whether Margaret showed on the electoral rolls for that period (women had the vote by then!) just in case family stories have gone a bit haywire over the years.
Was your mother living at home at the time of her marriage? Maybe you could use that address to check further. Or you could also look at the addresses for the sisters' at the time of their marriages.
I cannot see any obvious deaths for Margaret on FreeBMD up to 1936. Nothing shows with the middle initial V but her death may have been registered without her middle name. If it was registered without the initial, it will be hard (and expensive) to try and find her death cert without further info.
On a general basis regarding family fortunes, remember families lives differed over the years, fortunes could go up as well as down - like all good investments 
I was thinking, it might be worthwhile you putting up a new post on the Middlesex board to try and get more help looking for the deaths. People with experience of the area might be able to come up with new resources to try. I would normally recommend putting a link to previous posts for background on new related posts. Be good if you add as much as you know re Margaret and Alfred E. regarding their ages, location, ect. so that people can then work from there.
I'll keep looking.... 
Monica
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9208
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 Is it Albert or Alfred Elisha? Just realised that I have seen reference to both names!
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snootycat
RootsChat Member
Posts: 130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi, I had put a request up before on Roots and got nowhere....
I know he lived in London. I have a little more info now thanks to you so I will put up another post. I could send for my aunts wedding cert but if he died in the 60s its unlikely that he still lived in the same house. I have it in my head that it was in Edmonton. I will investigate a little further
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9208
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Showing my total lack of knowledge here on English records  Are you anywhere near Edmonton now? Can you go into the local Registrar for that area and ask them to look up records for you (may well be a cost for this?)
Monica
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9208
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Do you know someone called Caroline from GR? She has a Ruby b. 1911 in Edmonton.
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snootycat
RootsChat Member
Posts: 130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Caroline is my niece, who, when she found out who I was refused to speak to me as she 'didnt realise who I was' ! Thats if its the same person, which I suspect. As I said its a very funny family! I have never actually met her!
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snootycat
RootsChat Member
Posts: 130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have in the past spent numerous hours looking at the paper records, and scanning the papers, but when it is manual its like a needle in a haystack. That was ten years ago mind you, in the days before the Internet..........
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snootycat
RootsChat Member
Posts: 130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Whats GR?
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9208
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Genes Reunited (GR) which (in my opinion) is best to try and find living descendents. Some forums such as RootsChat, tread carefully to ensure that living people's privacy is maintained at all times so will not allow posts which are seen to relate to people who may still be living. At that point, I check GR to see whether I can pick up on more 'modern' entries....which is how I came across Caroline's entry!
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snootycat
RootsChat Member
Posts: 130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thats extremely kind of you
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snootycat
RootsChat Member
Posts: 130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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OK, I have sent for Ada Sheppards marriage cert and Charlotte Butlers death certificate in the hope it may give me some more modern details re family members
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9208
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Fingers crossed for you Pam that we find something for you there - you deserve it 
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snootycat
RootsChat Member
Posts: 130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Trying to tidy up Margarets children..............
Thomas Bryson Butler, is shown as being born in 1857 in Hutchestown Glasgow,
but in the 1881 census he is shown as being born in Shawlands Renfrewshire!
Are they the same place?
Similarly Hugh is showing as Henry?
Thats a big difference.................
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