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| | |-+  BROWN Bertram William: COMPLETED unless someone can tell me when he arrived!?
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Author Topic: BROWN Bertram William: COMPLETED unless someone can tell me when he arrived!?  (Read 376 times)
WiggyHobbes08
RootsChat Senior
****
Posts: 328


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
BROWN Bertram William: COMPLETED unless someone can tell me when he arrived!?
« on: Sunday 24 May 09 02:21 BST (UK) »
Trying to trace Bertram William BROWN, born 1879 Victoria Australia to Rebecca and George J J Brown.   

On his mother's death certificate (1931), he is listed as living aged 50 and in a death notice in the paper of the day he is said to be in South Africa -  he doesn't appear in any census or electoral rolls for Australia from 1901 - 1931.  There is no family memory of him either. 

Was he married?  Any children?  When did he live?  Where and when did he die?    So much we don't know.      Wink   Huh

Wiggy    Smiley
« Last Edit: Wednesday 15 July 09 08:19 BST (UK) by WiggyHobbes08 » Logged
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania Australia)
Brown, Johnstone, Cumming, Cunningham, Crawford, Jack (Dumfriesshire, Lanarkshire, Scotland)
Percy, Dunning, (Devon, England)
Convicts of First/Second Fleet.
EmPea
RootsChat Senior
****
Posts: 390
Re: BROWN Bertram William
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 27 May 09 16:30 BST (UK) »
Hi Wiggy

In the Pretoria Archives:

DEPOT     TAB                                                                   
SOURCE    MHG                                                                   
REFERENCE 81708                                                                 
DESCRIPTION          BROWN, WILLIAM BERTRAM.                                               
STARTING  19330000                                                             
ENDING    19330000                                                             
REMARKS   SURVIVING SPOUSE JOSEPHINE BROWN.

DEPOT     TAB                     
SOURCE    MHG                                                                   
REFERENCE 4685/48                                                               
DESCRIPTION          BROWN, JOSEPHINE. BORN FERGUSON.
STARTING  19480000                                                             
ENDING    19480000                                                             
REMARKS   PREDECEASED SPOUSE BERTRAM WILLIAM BROWN

The only other file (in the same archive) is this one :

DEPOT     TAB                                                                   
SOURCE    TP                                                                   
VOLUME_NO 54                                                                   
REFERENCE T123                                                                 
DESCRIPTION          2/C SERGEANT BERTRAM WILLIAM BROWN.
STARTING  19011115                                                             
ENDING    19121031

If you get copies of his Estate file, I'm sure you will be able to see if this is your man.

Regards
Moira
Logged
South Africa - Wessels/Vorster
South Africa - Behr/Toerien
South Africa - Pnematicatos/Chimato
Cornwall, England & South Africa - Hicks/Breach
Yorkshire & Durham, England & South Africa - Kenney/Hucks
WiggyHobbes08
RootsChat Senior
****
Posts: 328


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: BROWN Bertram William
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 27 May 09 22:18 BST (UK) »
 Smiley   Hi Moira,

Thanks so much for looking and finding.  I will persue this line.    Don't think I am dumb, but could you point me in the direction of how to get his estate file please.   Is there a web site for doing this, or should I write to some library in S.A.?

Very grateful,

Wiggy
Logged
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania Australia)
Brown, Johnstone, Cumming, Cunningham, Crawford, Jack (Dumfriesshire, Lanarkshire, Scotland)
Percy, Dunning, (Devon, England)
Convicts of First/Second Fleet.
EmPea
RootsChat Senior
****
Posts: 390
Re: BROWN Bertram William
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 28 May 09 08:52 BST (UK) »
Hi Wiggy

Either write directly to the archive itself or you can use the services of The Genealogical Society of South Africa.  Look at the 8th sticky at the top of this board for the link to eGSSA.  A link to the archive is the 6th sticky.

Regards
Moira
Logged
South Africa - Wessels/Vorster
South Africa - Behr/Toerien
South Africa - Pnematicatos/Chimato
Cornwall, England & South Africa - Hicks/Breach
Yorkshire & Durham, England & South Africa - Kenney/Hucks
WiggyHobbes08
RootsChat Senior
****
Posts: 328


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: BROWN Bertram William
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 28 May 09 11:28 BST (UK) »
Thanks Moira   Smiley

I've written to eGGSA - by stickies I presume you mean the sites listed by rutti tutti as look up sites do you?

Tried to look up myself and got to the same info you wrote out for me - thanks for that.   i am very hopeful of receiving a reply from South Africa soon.

Many thanks - and if you fall over any more information keep me posted - though I don't think you fell over what you sent - lots of looking involved no doubt!   Wink

Wiggy
Logged
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania Australia)
Brown, Johnstone, Cumming, Cunningham, Crawford, Jack (Dumfriesshire, Lanarkshire, Scotland)
Percy, Dunning, (Devon, England)
Convicts of First/Second Fleet.
EmPea
RootsChat Senior
****
Posts: 390
Re: BROWN Bertram William
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 28 May 09 15:14 BST (UK) »

Hi Wiggy

Quote from: WiggyHobbes08 on Thursday 28 May 09 11:28 BST (UK)
I've written to eGGSA - by stickies I presume you mean the sites listed by rutti tutti as look up sites do you?

Yes, that's exactly what I meant  Grin

Good luck with your search.

Regards
Moira
Logged
South Africa - Wessels/Vorster
South Africa - Behr/Toerien
South Africa - Pnematicatos/Chimato
Cornwall, England & South Africa - Hicks/Breach
Yorkshire & Durham, England & South Africa - Kenney/Hucks
WiggyHobbes08
RootsChat Senior
****
Posts: 328


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: BROWN Bertram William
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 30 May 09 12:05 BST (UK) »
Hi Moira,

I have made contact with someone in South Africa who is going to do some looking  for me - not the right place to go apparently but he seems willing to help anyway, which is very kind.   I feel I am putting him out a bit though.

The information you've rounded up so far - does that tell me Bertram died in 1933 and Josephine in 1948?   Is that what I should be reading from those numbers?    If I go after those documents, will they tell me if they had any children?    Can I find out more about Bertram before going for the document - e.g. is he the Bertram born in Victoria in 1879?     Undecided

Amazing how out of my depth I fell in trying to find out things from a 'strange' country!!   Huh

Cheers       Wiggy       Wink
Logged
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania Australia)
Brown, Johnstone, Cumming, Cunningham, Crawford, Jack (Dumfriesshire, Lanarkshire, Scotland)
Percy, Dunning, (Devon, England)
Convicts of First/Second Fleet.
WiggyHobbes08
RootsChat Senior
****
Posts: 328


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: BROWN Bertram William
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 30 May 09 12:42 BST (UK) »
I can tell - I should read more of the posts before asking questions!!   Embarrassed      i would learn so much that way!   
Logged
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania Australia)
Brown, Johnstone, Cumming, Cunningham, Crawford, Jack (Dumfriesshire, Lanarkshire, Scotland)
Percy, Dunning, (Devon, England)
Convicts of First/Second Fleet.
WiggyHobbes08
RootsChat Senior
****
Posts: 328


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: BROWN Bertram William
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 31 May 09 02:02 BST (UK) »
Documents ordered  Grin    - many many thanks Moira for all your help.    Smiley     Looking forward to reading more about Bertram!

Regards

Wiggy
Logged
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania Australia)
Brown, Johnstone, Cumming, Cunningham, Crawford, Jack (Dumfriesshire, Lanarkshire, Scotland)
Percy, Dunning, (Devon, England)
Convicts of First/Second Fleet.
WiggyHobbes08
RootsChat Senior
****
Posts: 328


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: BROWN Bertram William
« Reply #9 on: Friday 19 June 09 05:38 BST (UK) »
Moira,

I've heard from someone who says the documents have been sent for photographing - can hardly wait!!

Didn't take too long  for the first message - wonderful.

Wiggy
Logged
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania Australia)
Brown, Johnstone, Cumming, Cunningham, Crawford, Jack (Dumfriesshire, Lanarkshire, Scotland)
Percy, Dunning, (Devon, England)
Convicts of First/Second Fleet.
WiggyHobbes08
RootsChat Senior
****
Posts: 328


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: BROWN Bertram William
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 12 July 09 10:49 BST (UK) »
Yee Haa - documents arrived today - and we have found Bertram!!

Many many thanks Moira for great assistance!

The death notice doesn't say his marriage date - so if that happens to be easy to find, I'd love someone to tell me if possible please.   Marriage was at Germiston, South Africa - Josephine came from Gibraltar.
I believe they lived in the Transvaal - Benoni?     34 Mowbray Street,  Benoni is the address given then a hospital in Boksburg
and not to push it too much, there were three children of marriage of Bertram and Josephine (nee Ferguson)
Walter Herbert,   -
Melva Margaret   - married ?? Vanham
Kathleen Bernice - married ?? Vickers Kathleen   Kathleen was still a minor when her father died in 1933.

That is all the knowledge I have of them.   Any information gratefully received - again!

You Rootschat people have been absolutely marvellous in several arenas.  Thank you!

Cheers

Wiggy
Logged
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania Australia)
Brown, Johnstone, Cumming, Cunningham, Crawford, Jack (Dumfriesshire, Lanarkshire, Scotland)
Percy, Dunning, (Devon, England)
Convicts of First/Second Fleet.
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