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Topic: Norway: MOE family (Read 1339 times)
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jorose
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4639
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Okay, http://www.national.archives.gov.za/ is working for me again today.
There is a record for Moe, Bernt Kristian, (s/s Moe, Lise Mathea) (circa 1940-1943?), and another for Moe, Lise Mathea (1944).
These originate from the Pietermaritzburg Archives Repository - I strongly suggest you contact them as we don't seem to be having any luck finding a firm connection for this couple in Norway. There's also a deceased estate record indexed for Karen Moe (b. Zululand, unmarried).
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Danchaslyn
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 596
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Jorose
Again, thank you so much for that.................you beat me to it, as I've been trying to get into N.A.A.I.R.S. without success. 
Pietermaritzburg is the capital if you like for KZN, so their records would possibly give that district and not say, for instance, Tugela Ferry. 
Please can you tell me the date of Karen's death, I guess it was round about 1964-8? Died Durban.
Fillip, I know, firsthand, died 14 May, 1975. Died Durban.
Lizzie died, roughly 1980-1995? She would be listed as Lizzie Hallstrom. Died Port Shepstone.
Johanne died about 2 1/2mths short of her 100th Birthday, I think about May, 2002? Died near Port Shepstone.
Gustav Hallstrom, husband of Lizzie, died roughly, 1989-1992? Died Durban.
All of the above hosted both Norwegain and Swedish missionaries until their deaths.
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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MOE, Norway, Swaziland, and Zululand, South Africa
JORGENSON, Hole, Ringerike, Buskurud, Norway
AITKEN, Scotland, England, India, Island of St Helena, South Africa
LOBB, India and London
WALSH, India and England
SHORT, Yorkshire, England, Island of St Helena
BATEMAN, Island of St Helena, U.S.A.
YUILL, U.S.A.
FIRTH, Yorkshire, Engand
LIPTROT, various counties of England
SMITH, various counties of England
LYNCH, Yorkshire, England, Rhodesia and South Africa
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Danchaslyn
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 596
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Jorose
The death records for 'Bernt Kristian Moe' and Lise Mathea Moe, are I am sure, the exact ones we are looking for. The dates would fit as well.
In South Africa, 'c'is not part of the Afrikaans language, so it would be an easy error for Christian to be recorded as, Kristian. Most government departments, including obviously archives, would be staffed by Afrikaans speaking individuals in bygone days.
The wife of Bernt Christian was definitely known as Marthe, but I wonder if grandma can help us out here, and explain if 'Mathea' might have been her maiden surname?
Lise does vaguely ring a bell. The example of Petra Malena Moe, being known as Malla Moe, has certainly given me the idea?! 
Your post is of great help. I'm sure somewhere is a marriage record for Bernt Christian Moe, to Lise Mathea............ the more I think about, I feel they must have met at the mission station in Swaziland, and that "Marthe" was already one of the stranded ladies there and that Bernt was the knight in shining armour.
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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MOE, Norway, Swaziland, and Zululand, South Africa
JORGENSON, Hole, Ringerike, Buskurud, Norway
AITKEN, Scotland, England, India, Island of St Helena, South Africa
LOBB, India and London
WALSH, India and England
SHORT, Yorkshire, England, Island of St Helena
BATEMAN, Island of St Helena, U.S.A.
YUILL, U.S.A.
FIRTH, Yorkshire, Engand
LIPTROT, various counties of England
SMITH, various counties of England
LYNCH, Yorkshire, England, Rhodesia and South Africa
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grandma
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 637
I've not edited my PROFILE yet
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Hi Danchaslyn.
Have just talked to my son and he is still working on finding Bernt Cristian. It,s become a bit more difficult than he thought, but I,m sure if anyone can find him, it,ll be him (my son) He,s working on trying to find his confirmation and hoping it,ll give information about his parents etc.
Told him to look for a Lise Mathea, as well as Marthe. Lise Mathea is a given name.
Wish us luck.
Mary
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Danchaslyn
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 596
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Grandma
Oh that is so reassuring to hear that your son won't give up. Thank you so much. And what an excellent idea to search for his confirmation. 
I've been 'away' the past while searching the SA Archives and so interesting.
Maybe some of this will help your son?
Growing up, the Froehlich Family, of Westville, nr Durban, Tulla was my brother's Godmother, she was married to Gunnar Froelich.
According to N.A.A.I.R.S., Louise Frederika Johanna Moe, in South Africa, was born Froehlich in Stralsund, Norway. Seems like there's a connection?!
Also, in 1902, Malla Moe applied to the courts to 'have her cattle returned to her in Swaziland'!!
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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MOE, Norway, Swaziland, and Zululand, South Africa
JORGENSON, Hole, Ringerike, Buskurud, Norway
AITKEN, Scotland, England, India, Island of St Helena, South Africa
LOBB, India and London
WALSH, India and England
SHORT, Yorkshire, England, Island of St Helena
BATEMAN, Island of St Helena, U.S.A.
YUILL, U.S.A.
FIRTH, Yorkshire, Engand
LIPTROT, various counties of England
SMITH, various counties of England
LYNCH, Yorkshire, England, Rhodesia and South Africa
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Danchaslyn
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 596
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello
Also, we had Johannson relatives. And, I found this in N.A.A.I.R.S.:
Otto Oysten Johannson, b. Norway, s/sp Ingrid Adelheid Julie Moe.
He died in SA, 1973-4 and I actually remember him, but didn't realise that his wife was
a 'Moe'.
And:
Karen Moe - eldest daughter of Bernt Christian and Marthe? Moe - d. 1965-7, Durban
South Africa
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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« Last Edit: Monday 01 June 09 21:22 UTC (UK) by Danchaslyn »
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MOE, Norway, Swaziland, and Zululand, South Africa
JORGENSON, Hole, Ringerike, Buskurud, Norway
AITKEN, Scotland, England, India, Island of St Helena, South Africa
LOBB, India and London
WALSH, India and England
SHORT, Yorkshire, England, Island of St Helena
BATEMAN, Island of St Helena, U.S.A.
YUILL, U.S.A.
FIRTH, Yorkshire, Engand
LIPTROT, various counties of England
SMITH, various counties of England
LYNCH, Yorkshire, England, Rhodesia and South Africa
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Danchaslyn
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 596
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Grandma
On IGI I found:
Bernt Christian MOE
His father: Einar Moe
Marriage, 12 Nov 1857, Verdal, Nord Trondelag, Norway
Wife: Serina Birgitte Sorensdt
Serina's father: Soren Johnsen
Some of the names are so similar to the ones which your son already found, I'm wondering if these are just different, possibly inaccurate spellings perhaps?
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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MOE, Norway, Swaziland, and Zululand, South Africa
JORGENSON, Hole, Ringerike, Buskurud, Norway
AITKEN, Scotland, England, India, Island of St Helena, South Africa
LOBB, India and London
WALSH, India and England
SHORT, Yorkshire, England, Island of St Helena
BATEMAN, Island of St Helena, U.S.A.
YUILL, U.S.A.
FIRTH, Yorkshire, Engand
LIPTROT, various counties of England
SMITH, various counties of England
LYNCH, Yorkshire, England, Rhodesia and South Africa
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grandma
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 637
I've not edited my PROFILE yet
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Hi Danchaslyn.
Yes I think you have found him. But it,s a bit confusing.The census my son found was 1865 and no mention of Bernt Christian.
And the parents names are`nt the same. It was Bernt Moe who is married to Serine Birgitte Sørensdatter. (Sørensdatter means daughter of Søren) according to the christening of their daughter Ebertine Serine Moe, April 4th 1858.
And Einar Moe was married to Berith. They were god parents at the christening of Ebertine Serine, and more than likely parents of Bernt Moe
My son is away for a few days so I can`t ask him, but hope he can clear it up when he gets back.
Was the info on IGI submitted? You can`t always trust info like that. The person could have got the names mixed up.
I,ve just been clearing up a mess on one of my branches because someone on A******y had mixed up two names.
Cheers.
Mary
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grandma
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 637
I've not edited my PROFILE yet
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Hi Danchaslyn.
Please disregard my last posting. It was late in the evening and I didn`t read your last post properly. I thought you had said it was the birth of Bernt Christian. But it was the marriage to Serine Birgitte Sørensdatter.
But is this Bernt Christian the one who went to S. Africa? If so, has Serine Birgitte died and he re-married? Or, most likely, this Bernt Cristian had a son also called Bernt Christian? Who married Martha? and went to S Africa. The dates seem to lead to the latter, if as you say they went to S.A after 1880. The first Bernt Christian would have been too old.
Hope I havn`t muddled this up too much.
Hope my son can find the answer when he comes back.
Cheers.
Mary.
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Danchaslyn
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 596
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Grandma
It's all getting very confusing, but probably only because I'm confusing things........I very much inclined to trust what your son has discovered, but mentioned the marriage from IGI, in case it helps with his searches, as somehow they must be related.
Exactly as you say, this Bernt Christian can't be the one that went to SA, as he would be to old..................Bernt Christain Moe in South Africa having died between 1940-43!
I've also found a Bernt Christian Moe in, wait for it, Chicago, 1880 Census, as a cook! Strange how Chicago, USA keeps cropping up!! I remember you saying something about a Moe, as a baker to, perhaps the same person? This one was born 1844. Bernt Christian Moe's daughter, Johanne, lived until 99 3/4 in South Africa!
Wondering if Bernt Christian Moe of Chicago is the same one, who became a missionary and left for Swaziland? Perhaps he met Lise Mathea ? in Chicago?
What a riddle?
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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MOE, Norway, Swaziland, and Zululand, South Africa
JORGENSON, Hole, Ringerike, Buskurud, Norway
AITKEN, Scotland, England, India, Island of St Helena, South Africa
LOBB, India and London
WALSH, India and England
SHORT, Yorkshire, England, Island of St Helena
BATEMAN, Island of St Helena, U.S.A.
YUILL, U.S.A.
FIRTH, Yorkshire, Engand
LIPTROT, various counties of England
SMITH, various counties of England
LYNCH, Yorkshire, England, Rhodesia and South Africa
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grandma
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 637
I've not edited my PROFILE yet
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Hi Danchaslyn.
This is getting a bit more exciting.
On the 1865 census, in Verdal, Bernt Moe gives his occupation as a baker. But if the one you found in Chicago gave his birthdate as 1844 it couldn,t be Bernt Moe who was married in 1857. That would make him 13 when he married. Could it be he gave the wrong year for some reason or other? Stranger things have happened.
Was there any other names on the census for 1880 that looked familiar?
If Bernt Christian went to Chicago, that may be the answer why my son has not been able to find more info about him.. Perhaps Serine Brigitte died and he married Marthe? in Chicago or back in Norway. No that can`t be right, because if he was say, 20 when he married Serine in 1857, it would make him between 100 and 103 when he died in S.Africa.
Wish you could get your papers so we could see a bit more.
Mary
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Danchaslyn
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 596
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Grandma
You are so right, if only I could get to that one document! Not that its says much, only the names of father, mother, and children, as in Bernt Christian Moe, wife and children!
Last night, I followed Jorose's advice and looked for both Bernt Christian and Lise Matea's (Marthe's) deaths on N.A.A.I.R.S, (S.African official archives, which worked for once!) and have taken the document regs numbers down, but couldn't find how you order them?!!!
My 'dial-up' doesn't allow popups anyway, (can't book travel plans, or anything!). Anyway, as we know the N.A.A.I.R.'s site has Bernt Christian, down as 'Bernt Kristian Moe'. I would like to know, if I phoned N.A.A.I.R.S. and ordered both their death notifications, would I perhaps be given the details of who their parents were?
Would this be a definite?
Would I be given copies of their Death Certificates, for instance??
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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MOE, Norway, Swaziland, and Zululand, South Africa
JORGENSON, Hole, Ringerike, Buskurud, Norway
AITKEN, Scotland, England, India, Island of St Helena, South Africa
LOBB, India and London
WALSH, India and England
SHORT, Yorkshire, England, Island of St Helena
BATEMAN, Island of St Helena, U.S.A.
YUILL, U.S.A.
FIRTH, Yorkshire, Engand
LIPTROT, various counties of England
SMITH, various counties of England
LYNCH, Yorkshire, England, Rhodesia and South Africa
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Danchaslyn
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 596
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Grandma
I wouldn't let the possibility of Bernt Christian Moe, being nearly 100 when he died, put us off it being the same Bernt Christian Moe in Chicago, as a Cook on the 1880 Census, as, I said, his own second daughter, Johanne Moe, died aged 99 3/4 near Port Shepstone, South Africa!
I couldn't download the 1880 Census for Chicago, but again, as IGI is so easy for me to download, it came from there.
I'm also wondering, provided it is the same Bernt, if Serine died, and that when he reached Swaziland, he was by then a widow, and, as you say, that Lise Mathea ?, (Marthe) was, in fact, then his second, and not first wife?
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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MOE, Norway, Swaziland, and Zululand, South Africa
JORGENSON, Hole, Ringerike, Buskurud, Norway
AITKEN, Scotland, England, India, Island of St Helena, South Africa
LOBB, India and London
WALSH, India and England
SHORT, Yorkshire, England, Island of St Helena
BATEMAN, Island of St Helena, U.S.A.
YUILL, U.S.A.
FIRTH, Yorkshire, Engand
LIPTROT, various counties of England
SMITH, various counties of England
LYNCH, Yorkshire, England, Rhodesia and South Africa
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Danchaslyn
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 596
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello
I called up a different format on IGI and this came up:
1880 Census United States
Bernt Moe, b. 1844, Norway
Age 36 Occupation: R.R. Clerk (anyone know what occupation this is please?)
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Head of Household: Self
Father's Birthplace: Norway
Mother's Birthplace: Norway
Census Place: Chicago, Cook!! , Illinois
1254193
T9-0193
SSB - full image obtainable on Anc~stry.com
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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MOE, Norway, Swaziland, and Zululand, South Africa
JORGENSON, Hole, Ringerike, Buskurud, Norway
AITKEN, Scotland, England, India, Island of St Helena, South Africa
LOBB, India and London
WALSH, India and England
SHORT, Yorkshire, England, Island of St Helena
BATEMAN, Island of St Helena, U.S.A.
YUILL, U.S.A.
FIRTH, Yorkshire, Engand
LIPTROT, various counties of England
SMITH, various counties of England
LYNCH, Yorkshire, England, Rhodesia and South Africa
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Danchaslyn
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 596
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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And...........
HOUSEHOLD
Elphena Moe, wife, age 26, Keeping House, born Norway
Martina, daughter, b. 1870, age 10, born Illinois, Scholar
Berthe, daughter, b.1875, age 5, born Illinois, Scholar
Sayra, daughter, b. 1879, age 1, born Illinois
John Leon, Cousin, b. 1857, Norway, age 23, parents both born Norway, occupation,
'works in Bindery'
No Serine!
Cheers
Danchaslyn
P.S. -- what is a "Bindery"?
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MOE, Norway, Swaziland, and Zululand, South Africa
JORGENSON, Hole, Ringerike, Buskurud, Norway
AITKEN, Scotland, England, India, Island of St Helena, South Africa
LOBB, India and London
WALSH, India and England
SHORT, Yorkshire, England, Island of St Helena
BATEMAN, Island of St Helena, U.S.A.
YUILL, U.S.A.
FIRTH, Yorkshire, Engand
LIPTROT, various counties of England
SMITH, various counties of England
LYNCH, Yorkshire, England, Rhodesia and South Africa
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