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Topic: John Archibald Menzies - b Dunedin 1873? (Read 293 times)
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eadygirl
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 19
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Trying to find John Archibald Menzies, possibly born Dunedin in about 1873. Youngest child of Peter Menzies and Margaret Menzies (nee Cook)both of Perthshire, Scotland. They came to Australia in 1862 - their eldest child Margaret Wilson Menzies born at sea en route and her sister Isabella in Williamstown, Victoria, Australia. The next two daughters - Helen (1869-1931)and Jane (1872-1949) - were born in NZ (Dunedin, I think) and died in Australia. Did not know of JA Menzies existance until I got his mothers death cert from 1915 - he was alive aged 42. Can't find any records of him in Vic or NSW, so presume he must have stayed in NZ - but with who? His parents were in Australia. His sisters Helen and Jane both lived in NZ until the ages of 7 and 17, probably without their parents. Oooh, is a big mystery waiting to be solved! 
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Dann - Hunts, Cambs, Lancs, Australia and NZ
Menzies - Perthshire, Australia and NZ
Hind - Lincs, Yorks, Australia
Manton - Lincs, London, Chile, Mauritius, Australia
Lowther - Wilts, Australia
Noy - Cornwall, Australia
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althea
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1809
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on the BMD site
1871/7074 Menzies John Archibald
interesting the girls are not registered for the years given, maybe under name variant???
Bye
Althea
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Pascoe, Williams, Rowe, Matthews, Eddy: St Just-in-Penwith, St Keverne, Cornwall. Varcoe, Collicoat, Chapman: Roche area,Cornwall Cornes & Graham: Ireland/Shropshire, Barker, Palin: Shropshire McDougall, Morren: Ireland, Earl, Redgen, Steward: Suffolk Info: Thames, New Zealand Genealogy Resources: http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~althea/index.htmlNZSG Mem#18951 CFHS Mem#13723 Info: Breage, Germoe & Godolphin Cornwall : http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~althea/index.html |
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3175
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi eadygirl
... and Welcome to RootsChat 
Given that John Archibald's d.o.b. is now shown to be slightly at odds with what was recorded on his mother's death cert., then maybe, if his sisters' ages have been taken from that same source, their actual years of birth, might also be different ??
There are two possibilities - a "Helen Catherine MENZIES" born 1867 ... and a "Jane Templeton MENZIES" born 1868 ?? Later edit: Now known to be the wrong "Jane"
I can't see a record of marriage for a John Archibald MENZIES on the NZ Index (there are though a number of "JOHN MENZIE's ). You could try searching the online BDM, for a death record.
http://bdmhistoricalrecords.identityservices.govt.nz/home/
Lu
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« Last Edit: Tuesday 16 June 09 05:11 BST (UK) by Lucy2 »
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eadygirl
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 19
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Lu & Althea,
Thanks for your warm welcome to Rootschat- much appreciated by a newbie like me. I really appreciate the time you have taken to check out my request and respond so quickly.
A quick gripe about death certs - Aussie ones in particular. I have my mother's death certificate in front of me. She died just before Christmas last year. I was the informant and the funeral director asked me her date of birth: 20/2/1928. It appears nowhere on the cert. Why not? She's simply shown as dying aged 80. I could have been (understandably!) muddled and said she was perhaps born in 1926 or 7.
It seems that the responsibility for providing the correct age of all involved comes down to the informant who might be a family member, a friend or neighbour, or someone with no knowlege of the family at all. It must be a common problem!!
Both the girls never married: Helen Catherine Menzies b 1867 in NZ sounds good to me. Her sister was Jane Amelia Menzies ,who died in the Melbourne Benevolent Asylum, Cheltenham, Vic, Aus on 27 May 1949 aged 77. Nice bit of synchronicity there.....60 years ago to the day. Of course by 1949 all her immediate family were dead and an uniformed informant did the job with the funeral director.
As to John Archibald Menzies...perhaps that 1871 birth in NZ is correct. We was still alive in 1915. I have a family photo of 1911 that he is possibly part of - the 50th wedding anniversary of his parents. The body language between this unknown man and his young nephew hints that this is JAMenzies.
Maybe he's going to be as pesky to discover as his father, who took me 8 years and 2 trips to Scotland to finally track down? I live in hope!
Thanks to you both - keep looking!
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Dann - Hunts, Cambs, Lancs, Australia and NZ
Menzies - Perthshire, Australia and NZ
Hind - Lincs, Yorks, Australia
Manton - Lincs, London, Chile, Mauritius, Australia
Lowther - Wilts, Australia
Noy - Cornwall, Australia
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althea
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1809
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sadly that birth cert would be the only way to confirm and get accurate birthdate to them match up for a death.
All other JOhn Menzies records eg electoral rolls, burial records do not include an ARCHIBALD middle name
Bye
Althea
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Pascoe, Williams, Rowe, Matthews, Eddy: St Just-in-Penwith, St Keverne, Cornwall. Varcoe, Collicoat, Chapman: Roche area,Cornwall Cornes & Graham: Ireland/Shropshire, Barker, Palin: Shropshire McDougall, Morren: Ireland, Earl, Redgen, Steward: Suffolk Info: Thames, New Zealand Genealogy Resources: http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~althea/index.htmlNZSG Mem#18951 CFHS Mem#13723 Info: Breage, Germoe & Godolphin Cornwall : http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~althea/index.html |
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eadygirl
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 19
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I've ordered his birth cert. Will keep you posted. Thanks a million!
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Dann - Hunts, Cambs, Lancs, Australia and NZ
Menzies - Perthshire, Australia and NZ
Hind - Lincs, Yorks, Australia
Manton - Lincs, London, Chile, Mauritius, Australia
Lowther - Wilts, Australia
Noy - Cornwall, Australia
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eadygirl
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 19
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi there,
Got John Archibald Menzies birth cert in the post today - 5 Aug 1871 at South St, Hokitika. Parents all correct but that's all the info I've got.
A friend in Victoria dug up a possible marriage ref - John Menzies (b.NZ) + Elizabeth Jones married Victoria 1890 reg.#4074R. John would have been just 19, so it's possible. I had a look at the Vic BMDs which have been offline for an upgrade and it refused to give me an answer. I'm know many join me in my loathing of Vic BMDs and their petty 99c pay for view of very skimpy details that can lead to the purchase of the wrong cert.
Further research took me to the excellent Papers Past site at the National Library of NZ... paperspast.natlib.govt.nz which had good coverage of a hospital robbery (from a cashbox of patients property) at Hokitika in 1871, where JAM's father Peter was carpenter AND a suspect...plus hints of poisoning in the past. I can't quite put 2+2 together (poisoning!), but they do make up to 4 for me, as Peter Menzies talks about a certain dish being his wife's property, "having been brought with my wife's boxes from Victoria about January last". So that's my Peter Menzies, on the move again. But why....?
I think I'll have to get the girls birth certs from Dunedin and see if that throws any more light on things.
So, still stuck in a JAM!! It's frustratingly good fun and about 1000 times better than what's on TV on these cold winter nights.
cheers all,
Liz 
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Dann - Hunts, Cambs, Lancs, Australia and NZ
Menzies - Perthshire, Australia and NZ
Hind - Lincs, Yorks, Australia
Manton - Lincs, London, Chile, Mauritius, Australia
Lowther - Wilts, Australia
Noy - Cornwall, Australia
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3175
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again Liz
Gosh, what a strange reference at PapersPast to that "poisoning episode" ? [And try as I did, I couldn't find any other articles connecting the MENZIES' name to "poisoning" ?]
Hmm ... yes, I share your annoyance with the VIC BMD site and their "pay to view" facility (I've purchased at least one "useless" cert. !) But to follow up on John Archibald, it might be worth your while posting a query on the AUS board (many RC'ers there have BDM CD's which they can consult ... and it may just save you a few "99 cents views".) 
Just going back to the NZ born "Jane Amelia" ... seems her death cert details were incorrect in stating she was "77 years of age" (born c. 1872) ?
There is a (NZ) birth registration for a "Jane Amelia MENZIES" in 1869 ... which seems likely ?
Lu
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eadygirl
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 19
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Lu,
Glad that you also couldn't find any refs to the poisoning episode. I certainly wasted a lot of time looking for it! I have been chipping away at these Menzies for about 8 years, starting with some photographs and a marriage cert in Scotland for Peter Menzies in 1861. It's been a great but frustrating journey which has given me a couple of fabulous holidays & I've met some wonderful, helpful people along the way.
I've pinned the Menzies down in Perthshire, and Queenscliff, Vic - then suddenly they were in NZ, on and off, possibly over 20 years. Shipping records are pretty useless as details are scant - lots of Mr &/or Mrs Menzies travelling all over the place, along with miss menzies etc...no christian names. With such a common surname......
I will continue to plod along! I have found the family of PM's 2nd daughter in Australia and look forward to going to their family reunion in late October.
As to Jane Amelia - "Auntie Jinny" - the last surviving Menzies girl - she died in the Melbourne Benevolent Asylum in Cheltenham, Vic. in 1949. Perhaps her age (77)was a guesstimate although they have all the other details (usual residence, parents etc) correct. I'll get her NZ birth cert from 1869 in NZ.
Hope you don't think I'm a stinge with the 99 cent thing - though have lots of scots blood in my veins!
Thanks Lu - I'll let you know how I get on.
cheers, Liz
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Dann - Hunts, Cambs, Lancs, Australia and NZ
Menzies - Perthshire, Australia and NZ
Hind - Lincs, Yorks, Australia
Manton - Lincs, London, Chile, Mauritius, Australia
Lowther - Wilts, Australia
Noy - Cornwall, Australia
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3175
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Liz
Nah ... you're not "a stinge with the 99 cent thing".
(Even those of us with a goodly dose of Irish blood, balk at such things) !
I really hope you get lucky with finding more on John Archibald in OZ. And yes, let us know how you get on.
I'll have another look at PapersPast re: the "poisoning" - it's got me really intrigued now.
Lu
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