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Author Topic: Burgess-Spalding - a puzzle/condundrum  (Read 2146 times)
Gadget
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Posts: 24412


Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
Re: Burgess-Spalding - a puzzle/condundrum
« Reply #60 on: Tuesday 12 May 09 15:28 UTC (UK) »
Had some great help from KarenM from the Canadian Board who has  found her death (as Jean Murray Burgess) -  Nov 1909, Oxford Co. Giving an approx birth year of 1832. Parents listed as James Ramage and Mary Stoddart.

I've just found a baptism on the OPRs (SP)

25 Feb 1828, Crawfordjohn, Lanarkshire
Janet Ramage
Parents - James Ramage and Mary Stoddart

Gadget

PS - Crawfordjohn is the next parish to Wiston and Roberton. See:

http://scotlandsfamily.com/parish-map-lanark.htm

Note that Jean/Jane and sometimes Janet were used synonymously
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Gadget
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Posts: 24412


Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
Re: Burgess-Spalding - a puzzle/condundrum
« Reply #61 on: Tuesday 12 May 09 15:33 UTC (UK) »
and a marriage  Smiley

4 June 1824 James Ramage to Mary Stodart, Crawfordjohn, Lanarkshire
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Gadget
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Posts: 24412


Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
Re: Burgess-Spalding - a puzzle/condundrum
« Reply #62 on: Tuesday 12 May 09 15:35 UTC (UK) »
Mary and James also had a son, Thomas Ramage bpt. Crawfordjohn on 6th March 1826.
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CanadianStoddart
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Posts: 13


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Burgess-Spalding - a puzzle/condundrum
« Reply #63 on: Tuesday 12 May 09 15:49 UTC (UK) »
I'm comparing notes to what I have and may be a little while as I'm also looking after my 2 1/2 year old granddaughter today. Jean Murray Ramage b Jan 22 1832 daughter of James Ramage and Mary Stoddart. Then I have Jame Murray Ramage born 1822 married to James Burgess. I need to look closer to see if the dates could be wrong.
Back later. Thanks Gadget.
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Gadget
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Posts: 24412


Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
Re: Burgess-Spalding - a puzzle/condundrum
« Reply #64 on: Tuesday 12 May 09 15:56 UTC (UK) »
and the final link to the Murrays:

Baptism 18 Nov 1798 James Ramage to Thomas Ramage and Jane Murray, Crawfordjohn

No sign of a baptism for a Jane or Jean, although it could have happened and be missing/not recorded.

However, if she married James Burgess in 1843, she would have only been 12. I think the 1828 date for Janet  (giving an age of 15/16) is more likely. Alternatively the date of marriage might be wrong as the eldest child was down as being b. 1848.

Gadget
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CanadianStoddart
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Burgess-Spalding - a puzzle/condundrum
« Reply #65 on: Tuesday 12 May 09 16:14 UTC (UK) »
Another close but not definite is that my recorded death date for Jean Murray Ramage b. 1832 is Nov 24 1909. My recorded death date for Jane Murray Ramage b. 1822 is Dec 12 1909.  !!
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Gadget
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Posts: 24412


Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
Re: Burgess-Spalding - a puzzle/condundrum
« Reply #66 on: Tuesday 12 May 09 16:21 UTC (UK) »
See my message above where I transcribe  from the cert that Karen has so kindly  found - the Jean one is definitely her.


Just to summarize:


Jane/Jean/Janet Murray Rammage b 1828-1831, Crawfordjohn, Lanarkshire to James Ramage and Mary Stoddart
m. James Burgess b 1819,

Mary Stoddart b. 1802, Wiston and Roberton, Lanarkshire to Philip Stoddart and Janet Padkin
m.
1. James Ramage
2.  John Burgess b. 1816

(John Burgess and James Burgess were brothers; the children of John Burgess and Jean McDowall. John Burgess, snr, was my 3 x grt grandfather, James's brother)

Philip Stoddart b. 1758, Wiston and Roberton to Philip Stoddart and (probably) Janet Weir

Janet Padkin b. 1762, Wiston and Roberton,  to James Padkin


Gadget
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CanadianStoddart
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Posts: 13


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Burgess-Spalding - a puzzle/condundrum
« Reply #67 on: Tuesday 12 May 09 16:45 UTC (UK) »
Wonderful. Thanks so much for all your help.

Margaret
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Gadget
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Posts: 24412


Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
Re: Burgess-Spalding - a puzzle/condundrum
« Reply #68 on: Tuesday 12 May 09 16:54 UTC (UK) »
You're welcome - it's amazing how we're all just a series of interconnected trees - the descendants of Mary Stoddart and John Burgess and Jean Ramage and James Burgess are our joint relatives!

I'm still left with trying to find the parents of John Burgess and Jean Spalding though  Cry Cry Cry



Gadget - think I might have a little sulk  Grin Grin Grin
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Northerngirl
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Posts: 381
Re: Burgess-Spalding - a puzzle/condundrum
« Reply #69 on: Thursday 21 May 09 12:23 UTC (UK) »
Hello

I've been wondering whether or not to add more information to this thread which is very long, informative but very interesting.  The thing about 'brick walls' is that if we keep chipping away at each side we may get it to fall down - so here goes!


My own 'brick wall' is James Murray circa 1811 - 1843 or 1815 - 1843 (depending on which information is being used).   He is my 3x great grand father.  He married Elizabeth Shaw who was the daughter of William and Margaret Shaw (and may have been the niece of your Helen Shaw Scatza).  He by all accounts was a blacksmith.  He died at Green Lane which is just smack in the middle of between several parishes but ultimately at the time  was part of Kelton.  He is buried at Kelton Hill/Rhonehouse cemetery.   

I have tried all sorts of approaches to try and find more information about him.  I have investigated whether the McMichael blacksmith he was working for at the time was a distant relative (I note that some of your initial information mentioned an Agnes McMichael Gadget).  I did find an MI for an ? Agnes McMichael Murray and had intended to persue it.    The name Janet features very heavily in the Shaw family as does Helen by the way.  This of course may be all a coincidence and may also be muddying the waters' a little but chip, chip, chip!!

J.A.
P.S.  What's the betting that if we were men and could compare DNA we'd find a connection between us all?
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SCOTLAND
KBC interests - Murray and Shaw: Blacklock and Kirkland.
DMS interests - as KBC.

ENGLAND
Northumberland
Murray: > 1920 in Longbenton/Forest Hall; Howick 1920's
Elliott: North Nbld 1800's
Straughan/Straphen: North Nbld 1800's and 1910's/1920's Craster.
Henderson(nee Elliott)/Brodie Haydon Bridge 1900's
Bell (nee Elliott) Christon Bank/Embleton 1900's

IRELAND
County Mayo
Mills: Erris Head and Gortmellia
Mullarky: as same
Ginnelly: as same
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